Freespeech, cdswamp, and commercialisation

[sid]

I liked his posts and didn't realise he was banned! However I will agree with Dr Bubb to certain extend (after reading cds posts! which I found a bit OTT). I just voted for his return.

[wren]

I don't see any "Ignore" button. Does such exist or do you have to go to your own profile or something?

 

I've never used one anywhere yet and don't plan to, but just wondered.

 

On Edit: if we are to have a sub-forum for "bad stuff", being lazy I suggest one possible name:

 

The Argument Clinic

... no it isn't .. yes it is...

[sylvester]

I have avoided this issue so far but here goes...

 

I had CDSwamp on ignore for some time due to my difficulty in reading his posts. They were just tough to get through at times and the odd gems of information in there were not (in my opinion) worth the trouble reading through the rest of it. There was one abusive post a while back (before the banning incident) that I complained about (but I can't remember what it was).

 

People should remember that fun and entertaining as some of you thought he was, some of his posts (specifically the ones that got him banned) would put people off ever joining or contributing to GEI. If I had seen posts like that when I first arrived I would never have come back (or course some may have preferred that :-) ) How many members with valuable information and opinions would we have lost if he had still been here? This isn't a ranting site, nor an abusive one and I don't think there is any reason why members should be allowed to abuse each other. I liked the pub analogy. If you wouldn't say it there then why here?

 

I'm all for free opinions in a democratic fashion but I think a benign dictator needs to assess the level of abuse that is tolerated on this forum.

 

And a final note, we are all being careful with copyright issues so as not to land Dr Bubb in it but personal attacks can also have legal ramifications.

[Pixel8r]

I don't see any "Ignore" button. Does such exist or do you have to go to your own profile or something?

 

I've never used one anywhere yet and don't plan to, but just wondered.

 

On Edit: if we are to have a sub-forum for "bad stuff", being lazy I suggest one possible name:

 

The Argument Clinic

... no it isn't .. yes it is...

 

Click the users profile then click ignore user in their options.

[Steve Netwriter]

A special thread of a critical nature in the first post was made to comment on one particular member viz. cdswamp.

 

I gather you are referring to my post:

 

Title of thread: cdswamp - Currently the most controversial poster

 

There is obviously divided opinion on our poster cdswamp.

 

A few short points:

 

1. For those who come across a poster they simply cannot stand, there is no simple cure. You may not like them or what they say, or how they say it, but for every person who does not like, there will probably be a fan.

Therefore any moderation action is doomed to annoy someone.

 

But, there is an individual solutions, which although not perfect, may help:

 

a. You can visit the person's profile "View member profile" and select "Ignore User". You will then not see that member's posts.

The disadvantage is that you will miss everything they post, some of which you may find useful.

 

b. Just scroll past their posts, and ignore any you are not interested in.

 

 

2. I think forums evolve. That evolution is affected by what is posted. What is posted is affected by the reaction to it. If I post about golf repeatedly, and get no reaction, I'll give up posting about golf. If my golf posts attract a lot of feedback, the forum may evolve a sports section.

 

3. As I said quite a while ago, I think any poster who wants to spread information, or persuade, will be more effective if they take people along with them, rather than being combative.

cdswamp repeatedly says people who do not believe him are ignorant.

IMO there are a few possibilities:

1. He is right, and he is one of the few to "see the light".

2. He is wrong, and completely deluded, and it is "the fools" who have the right world view.

3. Most likely IMO is that some of the things cdswamp posts are correct, and some of them are not.

 

I would encourage everyone to read from page 269 of Bernard Lietaer's book "The Future of Money".

There he talks about the Taoist viewpoint. "All is about balance". "Every explicit duality is an implicit unity".

 

"Taoists see Yin-Yang as connected to each other, as necessary components to make the whole possible"

 

"On a lighter note, a similar point is made in the pun about a Buddhist monk requesting a food vendor: Make me one with everything".

 

IMO those who see the world as Yin-Yang will be more rounded and successful than those who only see the world from their Yin or Yang respective.

 

 

I'm sorry if you think my post was critical or baiting. I'm sorry because that was not my intention, and if you or anyone else thought it was, then I failed in my intention.

I have already apologised because the outcome did not match my intentions, and thus I obviously failed as a mod.

 

My intention was:

1. To make the title sufficiently "controversial" to attract attention, because I wanted people to read #2.

2. To answer the many complaining PMs with the information that an ignore facility was available.

3. To allow those who objected to certain posts to be able to live on this forum happily.

 

I was to put it mildly, surprised by the reaction in subsequent posts.

No one. Not one person, appeared to appreciate my point about Yin-Yang !

Far from baiting or criticising, my intention was to suggest that without different characters, this place would not be whole.

But, I have learned long ago that a writer cannot control the interpretation readers put on his writing.

 

=================

 

I would suggest that adding a "fight" section would be a very bad idea. I have seen forums destroyed by such a facility.

The fights are not confined to one section. They infect everything.

 

[nicejim]

His freedom of speech was respected but you cannot ban his abusive comments without banning everything. He was given warnings and didn't change his attitude so the ban was justified. I think it's time to see if he's changed his ways now though.

[wren]

My intention was:

1. To make the title sufficiently "controversial" to attract attention, because I wanted people to read #2.

2. To answer the many complaining PMs with the information that an ignore facility was available.

3. To allow those who objected to certain posts to be able to live on this forum happily.

 

I was to put it mildly, surprised by the reaction in subsequent posts.

No one. Not one person, appeared to appreciate my point about Yin-Yang !

Far from baiting or criticising, my intention was to suggest that without different characters, this place would not be whole.

But, I have learned long ago that a writer cannot control the interpretation readers put on his writing.

 

=================

 

I would suggest that adding a "fight" section would be a very bad idea. I have seen forums destroyed by such a facility.

The fights are not confined to one section. They infect everything.

Well, the very title:

cdswamp - Currently the most controversial poster

was baiting a certain member.

 

And he was baited. Unsurprisingly a baited bear does not react favourably.

 

I forgot that there's a subforum, the Warehouse and Dungeon. Maybe that would serve for ad hominem threads, which that most certainly was in its very title.

 

But whatever the "Doctor" says.

 

Does DrBubb actually have a doctorate degree from any respected university?

 

[ziknik]

I gather you are referring to my post:

 

Title of thread: cdswamp - Currently the most controversial poster

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry if you think my post was critical or baiting. I'm sorry because that was not my intention, and if you or anyone else thought it was, then I failed in my intention.

I have already apologised because the outcome did not match my intentions, and thus I obviously failed as a mod.

 

My intention was:

1. To make the title sufficiently "controversial" to attract attention, because I wanted people to read #2.

2. To answer the many complaining PMs with the information that an ignore facility was available.

3. To allow those who objected to certain posts to be able to live on this forum happily.

 

I was to put it mildly, surprised by the reaction in subsequent posts.

No one. Not one person, appeared to appreciate my point about Yin-Yang !

Far from baiting or criticising, my intention was to suggest that without different characters, this place would not be whole.

But, I have learned long ago that a writer cannot control the interpretation readers put on his writing.

 

=================

 

I would suggest that adding a "fight" section would be a very bad idea. I have seen forums destroyed by such a facility.

The fights are not confined to one section. They infect everything.

 

You have not failed as a mod.

 

Your opening post was fair and balanced. Cdswamp was not offended by it.

 

However, the thread invited other posters to have a pop at cdswamp. Nobody was particularly nasty towards swampy but I can see why he felt attacked.

 

Cdswamp went on to make a number of angry posts. It was right to suspend him till he calmed down a bit. In would have been better if he wasn’t antagonised or better if he didn’t lose his head, but we are where we are now.

 

A 3 day suspension would have been about right in my view.

 

If I was in cdswamps position, I would not return to this forum. I was banned from posting on HPC (they deleted my posts too), I don’t know if it was temporary because I’ve never tried to return.

 

 

[drbubb]

...some of his posts (specifically the ones that got him banned) would put people off ever joining or contributing to GEI. If I had seen posts like that when I first arrived I would never have come back (or course some may have preferred that :-) )

 

How many members with valuable information and opinions would we have lost if he had still been here? This isn't a ranting site, nor an abusive one and I don't think there is any reason why members should be allowed to abuse each other. I liked the pub analogy. If you wouldn't say it there then why here?\

 

Well said, Sylvester.

And that is exactly why he was banned - to maintain an agreeable civility here.

Having said that, I'd still be willing to give him a second chance, but only if I thought there was a reasonable

chance he would "mind his Manners" when back

 

[drbubb]

I was to put it mildly, surprised by the reaction in subsequent posts.

No one. Not one person, appeared to appreciate my point about Yin-Yang !

Far from baiting or criticising, my intention was to suggest that without different characters, this place would not be whole.

But, I have learned long ago that a writer cannot control the interpretation readers put on his writing.

I read it was a warning. Not baiting.

It was baiting only to someone looking for trouble- and I really think he was daring GEI to ban him.

When he crossed the line (THAT I DRAW, after listening to opinions here), I didnt hesitate to ban him.

There's no lack of confidence in this decision. Bit at the same time, I'm keen to keep listening to people here.

 

I think it's time to see if he's changed his ways now though.

Thanks for sharing that opinion about timing. I am still planning to wait one month.

Unless I change my mind, I will let him back as soon as Obama is inaugurated- that's one month.

 

...whatever the "Doctor" says.

Does DrBubb actually have a doctorate degree from any respected university?

 

I'm no "Doctor". But there is one in my household. My lovely partner has a Phd from Oxford, her second degree

from that institution. For those that do not know the story of the name, I will repeat it:

I used to own a website called DebtBubble.com (since I thought that was the biggest risk facing the world economy-

I wish I had held onto it now). When I joined HPC, I was going to post as DebtBubble, but I thought that was a bit

long, so I shortened it to "DtBubb", and then when I typed it out, I decided it looked better as "DrBubb."

I suppose I nearly became Det.Bubb, or "Detective Bubb." What a different journay that would have been!

 

[drbubb]

I was banned from posting on HPC (they deleted my posts too), I don’t know if it was temporary because I’ve never tried to return.

 

Was there a reason given for the banning on HPC?

I think we have bent over backwards for Swampy, and that irritates me- He doesnt appreciate the efforts that were

made to treat him fairly. That lack of appreciation of the respect shown to him, was an element in my decision to

want him banned for one full month.

 

[Mr Pipples]

Don't think Steve was baiting CDSwamp - think Steve was trying to deal with him in an open way and share the decision and ways of how to deal with him with the rest of the forum somehow. (Incidently, IMO, CDSwamp often used to bait people.) MO is that he posted the odd v. good bit but was way out of order too much of the time.

 

I'd say most people aren't primarily here for a lark about - they're here cause TS is/has HTF and they are trying to deal with their finances as well as they can - and this forum seems a good source of help/a way to help others/work and figure together. (Finances obviously being a massive part of their and their families security and future well-being - so serious shit.) That certainly doesn't mean 'no fun here' - but that does mean a level of focus needs to be kept, respect and common decency should prevail, etc... To form a constructive and beneficial community, of sorts.

 

There were times when I was certainly interested in what CDSwamp had to say and felt grateful towards him for some of what he shared. (Including an ear for the more 'conspiracy' type stuff - but not when it stomped all over the whole bloody forum trashing and consuming all threads in its path.) Unfortunately, he often seemed like someone whose idea of forum communication was to shout loud with hands over ears and chase after anyone who doesn't go along with the 'right' opinion. (Note, sometimes I agreed with what he was shouting about.)

 

I certainly don't think he'd change. He had plenty of chances/warning to do that - if that was something he was bothered about. Eg. the whole 'Miss Manners' bit never really happened, did it. He didn't/wasn't able to give enough of a shit IMO - shame, but there you go...

 

TBH, I really don't think he'd want to come back. Who put this forum here? Who spends load of time managing it and supplying info'? I feel grateful towards Dr B and Steve (& plenty of others). If I felt like abusing them then I wouldn't bother being here. What would be the point? (If the point is that there are loads of other people on here that I don't want to abuse but do want to have a forum with then fine - I'd go do my own and announce it.)

 

Edit: ditto Sylvester's remarks about forum newbies and visitors - often crossed my mind. They could be put off and turn their back on seeing abuse and reams of 'controversial' opinion - and then miss out on some real helpful advice that might save them and theirs loads of grief.

[ziknik]

Was there a reason given for the banning on HPC?

...

 

I think I was banned for questioning the mods’ decision to delete my posts.

 

I’ve no idea what I did to get my posts deleted

 

I have a copy of the post that got me banned

 

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....post&id=366

[drbubb]

I think I was banned for questioning the mods’ decision to delete my posts.

I’ve no idea what I did to get my posts deleted

Okay. Another bizarre, and inexplicable decision by the HPC mods.

I think you will agree that doesnt happen here. MAybe we explain too much- though

that doesnt mean you have to agree

 

[ziknik]

It is hard to see over moderation until it affects oneself. I am not criticising the moderation on GEI. Far from it, but I can see similarities between cdswamp on GEI and cgnao on HPC. The main difference being that cgnao didn’t make multiple abusive/aggressive posts which I believe cdswamp has done (maybe a few times).

 

EDIT

[drbubb]

The main difference being that cgnao didn’t make multiple abusive/aggressive posts which I believe cdswamp has done

Yes. And THAT is a rather important distinction

 

Hmm.

It is interesting to see how polarised the Poll voting has become.

Just under half think Swampy has been banned long enough. And nearly the same number think he should

never be let back on GEI. It will be hard to make a popular choice when feelings are so polarised.

A one month ban is not proving very popular, but that is what I am inclined to go with.

[azazel]

He was totally rude and abusive to various members. He deserved to get banned. I think we should give him a chance in the spirit of reasonableness but Im sure it will result in another ban. I think DrBubb and SteveNetwriter handled this well and highlighted the importance of manners and politeness as a requirement of our site. [

 

b]Come back swampy but please dont use foul langauge or be rude[/b].

 

I enjoy some of your posts and the things that interest you but lets maintain the standards of the site.

If you feel like being abusive, Id recommend HPC to vent your stress!

[torino]

I look forward to the end of cdsawmp ban ( ) as swmap's postings most of the time do contain

some in depth reasonings.

 

 

[ziknik]

Yes. And THAT is a rather important distinction

 

Hmm.

It is interesting to see how polarised the Poll voting has become.

Just under half think Swampy has been banned long enough. And nearly the same number think he should

never be let back on GEI. It will be hard to make a popular choice when feelings are so polarised.

A one month ban is not proving very popular, but that is what I am inclined to go with.

 

Everyone loses their temper every so often.

 

Christmas is the time for forgiving. I’m a bit surprised that 33% of the voters say they can never forgive at this festive time of year.

 

To everone who voted 'Never' - Where’s your Christmas spirit?

 

( )

 

[enrieb]

Does DrBubb actually have a doctorate degree from any respected university?

 

Thanks for the explanation DrBubb, I often wondered about the name, but never thought that it had anything to do with doctorate or medical qualifications.

 

The big question for me is Does Goldfinger really have a finger made of solid gold? or is it just plated?

 

Also did Steve Netwriter really write the Internet?

 

 

 

I'm not sure about a 'fight section' for GEI unless two strict rules are applied...

 

 

RULE NUMBER 1. You do not talk about fight section!!

 

RULE NUMBER 2. YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT FIGHT SECTION!

[torino]

Everyone loses their temper every so often.

 

Christmas is the time for forgiving. I’m a bit surprised that 33% of the voters say they can never forgive at this festive time of year.

 

To everone who voted 'Never' - Where’s your Christmas spirit?

 

( )

 

May be some of the abusive posts make the forum develop a kind of "bad" atmosphere.

In this case, I can imagine posters can be put off : nobody likes torrent of ordures

in thoughts, words or deeds.

However, regarding Swamp, it seems to me that his English literary style is very good:

he should try to develop a wee bit of "subtility" or "finess" in the content.

May some of the posters could try to help him achieve that.

 

 

[GTG]

Why was he banned?

 

I thought he'd been arrested and held for questioning by MFI

 

[Catflap]

Sorry to those who were subject to this morons abuse, it's first time I've read what he said. What a complete tosser..... the guy obviously has lots of issues and some kind of personality dissorder

 

Feck him, he's no loss - no one should have to put with personal insults like this on a forum like GEI

 

He's burnt his bridges - what a loser.

 

[mSparks]

Now there you are wrong- as far as I am concerned.

I dont want to see the sort of nasty behaviour which is common on some other forums that I visit spread here.

I am tolerant, but I will also draw a line when I feel it is necessary

I've kept quiet on this one, as I had him on ignore he didn't bother me, I read the thread when he was suspended and I totally agree he basically dared you to ban him.

its not like its a random banning, its not like he didn't deserve it. As for unbanning, personally there is only one way if I was at the helm he would be 'unbanned' - apologize and request it...

Thats about all I have to say on the matter, there is a big difference between complaining and being abusive, there is even room for a bit of piss taking when people are being silly,

 

Personally, I dont think anything less than a one month suspension would make sense.

So I will take another look at this thread and this issue after Jan.20th

Keep voting, but read his remarks first, please!

 

As the man at the helm, thats the difference, I don't see it as a free speech issue, I see it as a punishment issue, My vote would go to "whatever you see fit"

 

[ziknik]

Sorry to those who were subject to this morons abuse,

 

Why are you apologising for him? Are you his mum?

 

it's first time I've read what he said. What a complete tosser..... the guy obviously has lots of issues and some kind of personality dissorder

 

You’ve read 6 bad posts after he felt attacked and judged his previous 600+ posts?

 

Feck him, he's no loss

 

How do you know that? How many of his 600+ posts have you read?