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With all the bickering on here, we shouldn't forget that we discuss problems at a high level here. Some people don't even have money or savings to talk about. In this extra cold weather, some simply need a warm coat and a warm pair of shoes.

 

Inform yourself what your local charities do at the moment for people in need, and how you might be able to help. Put your savings to some good use.

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You're in, but don't forget to bring a sacrificial goat! :D

Oui! Leave goats out of it! My Billygoat would not be impressed to hear off goats and sacrifice in the same sentence. <_<

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I also happen to work for a major investment bank. There is absolutely no chance in hell that I would hold paper in ant greater proportion than necessary.

 

When this sucker goes it will go spectacularly quickly. The system will seize up in MINUTES. Everything is on a hair trigger.

Coming back to this. Yes, it will seize, but the the Zulauf scenario will happen: a HUGE flood of paper money will flush out the debt constipation. Markets will unseize, but they will be changed. Gold will go up +$1,000 the first day. +$2,000 the second, and +$5,000 the third. That's what I find more likely than the system just seizing up and freezing. Bernanke has made a promise, and he has kept it so far. Free unlimited money for everyone (sorts of).

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Gold will go up +$1,000 the first day. +$2,000 the second, and +$5,000 the third. That's what I find more likely than the system just seizing up and freezing. Bernanke has made a promise, and he has kept it so far. Free unlimited money for everyone (sorts of).

Minus the Catastrophism and the sudden universal deluge of money, you might be onto something. That is if 'per day' was swapped with 'per year'. :D

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Coming back to this. Yes, it will seize, but the the Zulauf scenario will happen: a HUGE flood of paper money will flush out the debt constipation. Markets will unseize, but they will be changed. Gold will go up +$1,000 the first day. +$2,000 the second, and +$5,000 the third. That's what I find more likely than the system just seizing up and freezing. Bernanke has made a promise, and he has kept it so far. Free unlimited money for everyone (sorts of).

 

Policy responses are always too slow, too little, too late, and too disjointed. The mechanics of unblocking the system are more complicated and time consuming than politicians understand.

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With all the bickering on here, we shouldn't forget that we discuss problems at a high level here. Some people don't even have money or savings to talk about. In this extra cold weather, some simply need a warm coat and a warm pair of shoes.

 

Inform yourself what your local charities do at the moment for people in need, and how you might be able to help. Put your savings to some good use.

 

Perhaps I should mention that the most aggressive "disrupters" here, are the core posters on another website. It is very easy to imagine what their motive is. Perhaps I should just ban them here. I haven't seriously thought of that, but I welcome comments now.

 

Inform yourself what your local charities do at the moment for people in need, and how you might be able to help. Put your savings to some good use.

Thanks for remembering charities. Those of us who have benefited from Gold's price moves and those who have high paying jobs shouldn't forget that everyone is not so well off.

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Policy responses are always too slow, too little, too late, and too disjointed. The mechanics of unblocking the system are more complicated and time consuming than politicians understand.

Regarding politics, I agree. It is all retrospectively done.

 

Regarding central banks, I don't quite agree. Look at the Fed swaps recently. That was the typical emergency response to be expected. As long as it is a short term measure, they (central banks) are allowed to do crazy stuff to keep the system pumping - because that is the number one directive (not currency stability, but the 'functioning' of the financial markets). Then, retrospectively, politics will cement the short term emergency action as the usual temporary-roll-over-to-infinity financial gizmo, retrospectively justifying the creation of gazillions of Euros and Dollars.

 

Therefore, I don't expect markets to seize up for a longer period of time. Maybe a day or two in the extreme, but then unlimited gazillions will flow. Gold, however, will essentially be unavailable. This is something no central bank will be able to 'fix'. There won't be any for sale.

 

EDIT: Well, I hope I am not being complacent here. But I do have more than usual cash at hand.

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Which members are you talking about?

 

Perhaps I should mention that the most aggressive "disrupters" here, are the core posters on another website. It is very easy to imagine what their motive is. Perhaps I should just ban them here. I haven't seriously thought of that, but I welcome comments now.

 

 

 

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Perhaps I should mention that the most aggressive "disrupters" here, are the core posters on another website. It is very easy to imagine what their motive is. Perhaps I should just ban them here. I haven't seriously thought of that, but I welcome comments now.

 

 

I dont think you should ban anyone, why would you want to do that? Its exactly this attitude thats thats gone wrong here.

 

I just cant understand you. The world is facing financial meltdown and escalating wars and there is a very compelling argument for gold as a defence to this, which is why the price of gold is rising, and yet you think that holding physical gold coins is in someway a cult type behaviour and not to be encouraged on this site? I dont know of anyone who has been disruptive here, unless you think disagreeing with you is disruptive.

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Gold not a reliable inflation hedge - study

 

LONDON | Wed Feb 8, 2012 11:56am GMT

 

(Reuters) - Gold prices have been too volatile to play a reliable role as a hedge against inflation, a study of financial assets over the past 112 years showed on Tuesday.

 

While inflation does not reduce gold's real value, it has no yield or income flow and the precious metal has given a far lower long-term return than equities.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/uk-gold-hedging-idUKLNE81702120120208

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Gold not a reliable inflation hedge - study

 

LONDON | Wed Feb 8, 2012 11:56am GMT

 

(Reuters) - Gold prices have been too volatile to play a reliable role as a hedge against inflation, a study of financial assets over the past 112 years showed on Tuesday.

 

While inflation does not reduce gold's real value, it has no yield or income flow and the precious metal has given a far lower long-term return than equities.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/02/08/uk-gold-hedging-idUKLNE81702120120208

What does that have to do with the price of gold [i could have said the price of fish in China]? Gold is a prime form of liquidity, and the volatility in it should be seen akin to currency movements. It's just that in the aggregate this currency continues to appreciate relative to the rest.

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The first feature is that the rally has moved above the upper edge of the trading channel near $1,720. The second feature is that the price has also moved above the value of the downtrend line, which also has a value near $1,720.

 

This breakout above two important resistance features is very bullish. The first upside target is near $1,800. This is the peak of the November 2011 rally and it is a weak resistance level.

 

The width of the trading channel is calculated and this value is projected upwards to provide the second breakout target. This is near $1,860 but there is a high probability the price will use the previous resistance level near $1,880 as a target level.

 

The long established pattern of trend development inside the trading channel suggests that any breakout towards $1,800 and $1,880 will have the characteristics of a rally rather than a sustainable trend.

 

Darryl Guppy

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46289385

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While inflation does not reduce gold's real value, it has no yield or income flow and the precious metal has given a far lower long-term return than equities.

 

 

 

..and no counter party risk, either ;)

 

No yield or income flow...far lower long term return than equities. But since 2000 gold has gone from 250 odd to 1750 odd. :)

 

I wish to have a few other investments like that. And equities since 2000 have done fairly [.....] :o

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Sure has been a while since I posted here :)

 

 

I haven't had much need to check up on the financial world for about a year now, if you check my posts you'll see that late 2010 I was making a nice bit of money in the stock market.

Early 2011 (pre-crash) I sold up and bought a nice house in a good location, discounted by a nice chunk and with a great fixed mortgage.

After that I had no money left to invest.. so no need to look into it.

However I now have quite a bit of money once again, and the thought of putting it back in the stock market doesn't seem like a good one. I fully expect a large crash soon. It's now just sitting in my bank..

 

That said - I want to invest once again in gold/silver, only this time physical rather than something like bullionvault, as I think we're closer to endgame now.

 

This will be the first time I've actually purchased physical. Do you guys have any tips? Ie : what size bars, coins, websites, countries (guernsey vat free?), ebay?

 

Cheers

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I assume you're UK based, in which case there's no better argument for owning [either|both] Britannia [gold|silver] or Sovereign coins, as both are CGT exempt. Given the price we expect gold to rise to, small denominations of G&S would be better than [250g-->1KG] bars for obvious reasons. I'd also suggest it's much harder to forge a coin than it is a bar, however if you stay with the main dealers like Guernsey Mint, Coininvestdirect.com etc... you won't go too far wrong. I would strongly suggest avoiding E-Bay for either, unless you're buying junk silver. In terms of silver I personally like 5KG bars, they're a nice size, 1KG bars are also fine but 1KG silver coins are lovely... ;) Remember you pay VAT on silver if you take physical delivery, but personally I don't think this matters as you include this cost when you sell it on. I strongly recommend Guernsey Mint for silver...

 

That said - I want to invest once again in gold/silver, only this time physical rather than something like bullionvault, as I think we're closer to endgame now.

 

This will be the first time I've actually purchased physical. Do you guys have any tips? Ie : what size bars, coins, websites, countries (guernsey vat free?), ebay?

 

Cheers

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This will be the first time I've actually purchased physical. Do you guys have any tips? Ie : what size bars, coins, websites, countries (guernsey vat free?), ebay?

 

Cheers

I would buy only sovereigns. If you phoned all the various coin dealers and negotiated a discount, im sure coininvest would match or beat that price. Buy in lots of 100.

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Thanks for the advice. I don't quite have enough money for 100 sovs ;)

I didn't know that about Britannias/Sovs and CGT.

 

I think a 250% rise by 2015 is well within reach, and as long as I don't need the cash I will hold, so on that basic CGT laws on those coins look good.

Only thing that bothers me, is as soon as it rockets.. gov will tax the hell out of it.

 

azazel, any reason why you prefer sovs?

 

I assume I'm just going to have to bite the bullet regarding VAT.

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I assume you're UK based, in which case there's no better argument for owning [either|both] Britannia [gold|silver] or Sovereign coins, as both are CGT exempt.

 

Warpig, great info, thanks.

 

Is there an "official" place where I could check that info; in fact, I'd like to know if owning bullion, through online bullions vaults or the actual physical thing is also CGT exempt. I keep seeing contradictory statements on that matter, which is annoying. Thanks!

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Both coins are legal tender in the UK, so I think they would struggle to tax the appreciation of the material it's made of.

 

CG12602 - Exemptions: currency in sterling, certain chattels, betting winnings

TCGA92/S21 (1)(B)

 

Currency in sterling is not an asset for capital gains purposes. It is the unit by reference to which capital gains are measured.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov....ual/CG12602.htm

 

Only thing that bothers me, is as soon as it rockets.. gov will tax the hell out of it.

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It's only legal tender coins that are CGT exempt. Holding bullion in any other form incurs capital gains tax.

 

CG78308 - Foreign currency: coins: legal tender

 

Sovereigns minted in 1837 and later years and Britannia gold coins are currency but, like all sterling currency, are exempt because of TCGA92/S21 (1)(B).

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cgmanual/CG78308.htm

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cgmanual/CG12602.htm

 

 

 

Warpig, great info, thanks.

 

Is there an "official" place where I could check that info; in fact, I'd like to know if owning bullion, through online bullions vaults or the actual physical thing is also CGT exempt. I keep seeing contradictory statements on that matter, which is annoying. Thanks!

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I'm sure they'll find a way to sting you, that's what governments do.

This should probably be in the silver thread, but £3609 for a 5kg bar of silver over at Guernsey. I assume customs bill me for VAT or something.

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