ACORE Thread: Learning DISCERNMENT (2016 thread)

[drbubb]

Here's MORE from that Hard Questions link that I provided above:

 

+ VALUE : Why does the OP talk about $5 Billion per person when $300 Trillion Global Tangible wealth (on the planet) divided by 7 Billion people is less than $50,000 per person?

("Each embodiment is an aspect of eternal essence… and the value of eternal essence is infinite… right?") : Heather

That seems like pure jargon to me. Do you mean that each person has unlimited creativity, and can potentially create an unlimited amount of value and wealth? Or do you mean that a person's self-worth (and self-esteem) is not determined by others?. Or maybe: Nature is bountiful, and has unlimited potential? If so, I would agree with the first two, and only slightly with the third. But let's stick to English here, it will make a discussion easier.

("the 5 billion was an purely arbitrary number… made it large enough that in comparison to any other offer.") : Heather

Okay. An arbitrary number – but a very, very large one. It may generate some false expectations. Can you recall when so many people got excited earlier this year thinking that vast wealth was headed their way, and then the letdown when Caleb said it was not.

Ron Van Dyke expressed the disappointment well back on 12-March (2013):

VIDEO :

"the pin-prick heard round the world", he called it.

-- unquote --

 

In the Video, he claims "I live in a home, given me by Dr Mary"

We know now, that it was a lie. The truth was, he got the key to a house (under a title dispute), and used a Loan secured on

that disputed home, to buy the house he lived in, back in 2013.

 

"Heather's calls were breaking up... They could get her back." (she ran for the hills)

"She RESONATES WITH MY HEART" (sure, and so does anyone who promised RVD free money.)

[drbubb]

Three years later, RVD is still telling the same old/ same old lies - here's yesterday's episode

.

3-23-16 – I WILL KEEP TELLING THE TRUTH UNTIL I DIE

Title should be:

3-23-16 – I WILL KEEP TELLING LIES UNTIL I DIE

 

"My non-mortgaged home"

You F---ing shabby liar!

You took a mortgage on a home YOU DID NOT OWN (did not own free and clear as you covenanted), to buy the home you "lost".

The bank simply moved to get its money back - there's nothing unlawful in that !

 

"I put it (the promise) in a affidavit... She never provided the paperwork that she promised"

I dont believe this for a second - Ron has lied about so much in this case.

If it is was true, he was a fool to sign anything BEFORE he got a written confirmation from the bank of that promise

 

"I still own the house on Merritt Island; even though it has been torn down."

(this sentence should make clear the extent of RVD's self-delusion - a permanent feature of his life.)

[Jeffrey]

 

"I put it (the promise) in a affidavit.

 

That's not how anything works!

 

That'd be like me saying DrBubb promised me $20 dollars and the only proof of it was I said so in an affidavit.

 

And we still have no confirmation that Ron ever signed or was asked to sign a power of attorney.

[dubaigangsta]

Three years later, RVD is still telling the same old/ same old lies - here's yesterday's episode

.

3-23-16 – I WILL KEEP TELLING THE TRUTH UNTIL I DIE

Title should be:

3-23-16 – I WILL KEEP TELLING LIES UNTIL I DIE

 

"My non-mortgaged home"

You F---ing shabby liar!

You took a mortgage on a home YOU DID NOT OWN (did not own free and clear as you covenanted), to buy the home you "lost".

The bank simply moved to get its money back - there's nothing unlawful in that !

 

"I put it (the promise) in a affidavit... She never provided the paperwork that she promised"

I dont believe this for a second - Ron has lied about so much in this case.

If it is was true, he was a fool to sign anything BEFORE he got a written confirmation from the bank of that promise

 

"I still own the house on Merritt Island; even though it has been torn down."

(this sentence should make clear the extent of RVD's self-delusion - a permanent feature of his life.)

he pulled a fast one on the bank, but he is right in that it wasn't a mortgage but a loan. He pulled a fast one, it didn't work... i can respect him for trying to pull of such a scam but he certainly isn't a victim here as he put up nothing to get a home whereas people everywhere else struggle for shelter. the bank has the right to come after what he bought with his loan. in a regular everyday situation if someone borrows money from you to buy something, then can't pay you back, i am sure many may take what they bought with the money as a way to resolve the debt depending on if the item had value to them.

 

 

ron has selective hearing and interpretation of thigns. even if he has an affadavit it means nothing. it is her word against his. this argument has no bearing on the case at all.

 

rons lesson right now is self ownership which is he failing miserably.

[drbubb]

 

That's not how anything works!

 

That'd be like me saying DrBubb promised me $20 dollars and the only proof of it was I said so in an affidavit.

 

And we still have no confirmation that Ron ever signed or was asked to sign a power of attorney.

 

You should go for more that $20, if it had a chance of working (haha)

 

RVD got "free" use of a house for 10 years.

And there's no evidence that he ever paid a dollar of property tax.

He probably has some dodgy reason for not doing that

[Jeffrey]

 

justaman69724 hours ago

I told you Ronny that I'd be happy to take something personal from those involved in the theft of your home. Each one deserves it. Let me know..

 

Okay now we have people threatening the lawyers Ron is naming. This is why Ron can't run his mouth.

 

Update:

 

https://youtu.be/wi4BkOx3cFY

 

If you actually listen to the video, Ron contradicts his central claim against the PNC bank lawyers.

 

Ron claims that he was tricked into signing power of attorney to sell the Merritt Island home and therefore the lawyers are liars etc.

 

Then 3 minutes later IN THE SAME VIDEO, he says he never signed anything that would allow them to sell the house!

 

Either he was tricked into signing it or he didn't sign anything, you can't claim it was both!

[sandie27]

 

Okay now we have people threatening the lawyers Ron is naming. This is why Ron can't run his mouth.

 

Update:

 

https://youtu.be/wi4BkOx3cFY

 

If you actually listen to the video, Ron contradicts his central claim against the PNC bank lawyers.

 

Ron claims that he was tricked into signing power of attorney to sell the Merritt Island home and therefore the lawyers are liars etc.

 

Then 3 minutes later IN THE SAME VIDEO, he says he never signed anything that would allow them to sell the house!

 

Either he was tricked into signing it or he didn't sign anything, you can't claim it was both!

It is clear in our effort to out the BS,scammers,fraudsters and liars it is time to start ignoring RVD he is delusional and a conman end of story!!

 

The thing he fears most is being ignored as he gets a buzz from the publicity and his so called adoring ,gullible followers.

 

IGNORE AND UNSUBSCRIBE FROM RVD!!!

 

He is beyond help!!

[dubaigangsta]

 

Okay now we have people threatening the lawyers Ron is naming. This is why Ron can't run his mouth.

 

Update:

 

https://youtu.be/wi4BkOx3cFY

 

If you actually listen to the video, Ron contradicts his central claim against the PNC bank lawyers.

 

Ron claims that he was tricked into signing power of attorney to sell the Merritt Island home and therefore the lawyers are liars etc.

 

Then 3 minutes later IN THE SAME VIDEO, he says he never signed anything that would allow them to sell the house!

 

Either he was tricked into signing it or he didn't sign anything, you can't claim it was both!

i think he means he never signed anything that would be the final sign of the home. so he may have given them permission, but when it came down to selling it to xyz he didn't give the final signature.

 

This is how rvd logic works.

[dubaigangsta]

It is clear in our effort to out the BS,scammers,fraudsters and liars it is time to start ignoring RVD he is delusional and a conman end of story!!

 

The thing he fears most is being ignored as he gets a buzz from the publicity and his so called adoring ,gullible followers.

 

IGNORE AND UNSUBSCRIBE FROM RVD!!!

 

He is beyond help!!

i don't think rvd is a conman.

 

He is delusional. He is still mentally a child. And thus would rather come up with excuses and denials instead of facing the truth. His behavior is more out of ignorance from objective reality vs a guy trying to scam his followers.

 

He pulled a fast one on the banks. It is admirable he tried, and he'd get a lot of respect from people and would probably be still relevant had he said from the beginning he pulled a fast one and almost got it away with instead of playing a victim.

[drbubb]

He pulled a fast one on the banks. It is admirable he tried, and he'd get a lot of respect from people and would probably be still relevant had he said from the beginning he pulled a fast one and almost got it away with instead of playing a victim.

 

I find nothing admirable in what he did - it is the work of a conman

 

Moreover, the banks will have to recover their losses from dealing with deadbeats like Ron,

by charging their honest customers more. I am in the "honest customer" bracket, so in a way, Ron was stealing from people like me.

 

Although the bank may have by now recovered half or more of its original principle, they have lost 10 years of property tax payments,

and they have probably paid tens of thousands in legal fees. I hate those situations where the only winners are the lawyers

[Jeffrey]

 

i think he means he never signed anything that would be the final sign of the home. so he may have given them permission, but when it came down to selling it to xyz he didn't give the final signature.

 

Then this is a completely new story from RVD because for at least a year his claim was that the PNC Bank lawyers tricked him into giving them power of attorney to sell the home. (If I'm remembering this detail wrong, please correct me).

 

Now he's saying he didn't sign anything. So how the hell did they trick him into signing something when he never signed anything.

 

There's no way to interpret what he's claiming so that it would make any logical sense.

[dubaigangsta]

 

Then this is a completely new story from RVD because for at least a year his claim was that the PNC Bank lawyers tricked him into giving them power of attorney to sell the home. (If I'm remembering this detail wrong, please correct me).

 

Now he's saying he didn't sign anything. So how the hell did they trick him into signing something when he never signed anything.

 

There's no way to interpret what he's claiming so that it would make any logical sense.

again you fail to see rvd logic...

 

1) He obvioulsy gave them power of attorney (this is objective). he says he was deceived by an argeement that was not honored by them (subjective no proof).

2) didn't sign anthing - he claims their is no original document of his signature so he didn't sign anything since it was copies, could be he didn't do a final sale signature.

 

this is the way his mind works. he is a moral relativist so nothing is objective in his world. just what he wants to true so he creates a bunch of delusions around objective facts like a true course in miracles graduate.

 

honestly at this point who cares what his story as it is done with. the house is gone. the court has heard all of his arguments and given ownership to the bank. ANthing he says now is irrelevant to what has ocured. he is nothing more now then like a guy who still goes on about how an ex ruined his life years later.

[drbubb]

Ron is going through a Stressful period -

 

He is in mourning for a Big Delusion (that he had been given a Free House, because he was wise and clever enough to submit the right documents),

and giving up on this delusion is proving very painful for him - since he was so deeply attached to it.

 

We can expect that his state of mind as one that will go through the Five Stages of Grief - this pattern has been analyzed and described in the Psychological literature:

 

The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief

By Julie Axelrod

The stages of mourning and grief are universal and are experienced by people from all walks of life. Mourning occurs in response to an individual’s.. loss of a close relationship, or to the death of a valued being, human or animal. There are five stages of normal grief that were first proposed by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross in her 1969 book “On Death and Dying.”

1. Denial and Isolation

The first reaction to learning of terminal illness or death of a cherished loved one is to deny the reality of the situation

(this was where Ron kept searching for lawyers that might take "his" side, and help him to file the right documents, that would allow him to stay in "his" house.

All he could find were unscrupulous lawyers that would take his money for pretending to help in an impossible case.)

2. Anger

As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. We are not ready. The intense emotion is deflected from our vulnerable core, redirected and expressed instead as anger...

(This is where RVD seems to be now, angry that he feels he has been cheated out of something that really was his - he was a true believer of the Big Delusion)

3. Bargaining

The normal reaction to feelings of helplessness and vulnerability is often a need to regain control–

• If only we had sought medical attention sooner…
• If only we got a second opinion from another doctor…
• If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…

Secretly, we may make a deal with God or our higher power in an attempt to postpone the inevitable. This is a weaker line of defense to protect us from the painful reality.

(Ron seems to be edging into this phase, as he searches for a way to bargain with God, and get help, without it costing him to much money, which he doesnt have, or too much effort. Some of us tried to get him to leap-frog into a better arrangement months ago, but he was too stuck in his comfortable old delusion.)

4. Depression

Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression.

(We can expect to see Ron slide into Depression before long, when he truly realizes there will be no way back to getting a free house.

5. Acceptance

Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone.

(Let's hope that Ron can get to the Acceptance phase before the end of the year, and that he will move into something genuinely positive, rather than another comfortable delusion.)

==

> source: http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/

=== ===

 

Latest Videos:

 

3-24-16 – BANKING/FINANCIAL SYSTEM IS 100% FRAUD!

Ron isn't Angry here, and some might think he is still in Denial. But it sounds more like Bargaining to me.

He is envisioning that God will give him a world ("we will co-create it"), where handouts and Free Houses might be possible for everyone.

"We do not need to borrow money to run a government" (because Money grows on Trees, right?)

Actually, Ron is right, but only if the government does a lot LESS - and they would not be handing out free houses, or even free college.

 

3-25-16 – LIKE BANKING, MARITIME LAW IS ALSO FRAUD!

This one sounds more like Denial to me. Some strange ideas ("we are not sea creatures"), but he denies the way to world is.

[Thunter]

I note that in today's video, Ron has slipped back into optimism that change will come soon.

 

Must be back to heavy consumption of youtube hopium again.

[drbubb]

I note that in today's video, Ron has slipped back into optimism that change will come soon.

Must be back to heavy consumption of youtube hopium again.

 

HOPIUM is either Denial, or Bargaining-with-God; an will not lead to acceptance and genuine positive efforts to fix his situation or the world

 

COMPARE: two videos with similar titles

 

Ron's analysis lacks detail & solid analysis, while he stirs up false hopes

 

3-26-16 – WE’VE BEEN LIED TO OUR ENTIRE LIVES

 

Brad Olsen identifies some real areas where the mainstream narrative is based on lies

 

Ep. 413 FADE to BLACK Jimmy Church w/ Brad Olsen: Everything is Fake LIVE

 

Ron is not smart enough, or not diligent enough to employ research, analysis, and genuine discernment in pursuit of Truth.

Like far too many Millennials...

Ron seems content to ride on the backs of others who do research, but he has no ability, no interest in developing his own discernment.

He is like a beggar, always asking for handouts, and never willing to work for the rewards he seeks.

I would like to hear more SOLUTIONs from Brad and Jimmy. I think they are mostly right, but what do we do?

[drbubb]

RON WANTS the World to Change, so he doesn't have to change himself (ie "his truth")

.

3-27-16 – MY UNUSUAL EASTER MESSAGE

.
"If that cannot change, I am in the wrong place"
"We can finally experience Peace on Earth"

,
I thought this one started in an encouraging way. Ron said he was beginning to question things that he long believed.
(like that God controls everything at the individual level.)
But then he quickly slid right back into his old delusions.

.
He said something positive about Ubuntu, mentioning it as a sign that the world was waking up.
It is not. It is more Hopium, Communism rebranded.
Then he started to make clear his constant theme. RBD does not have to change.
It is the world that has to change, to "wake up" and see things Ron's way.

.
It is not going to happen, Child Ronny. The world's not fine as it is. I am not saying that. There are too many selfish people with too much power. But we can only fix it by freeing ourselves from delusions, and trying to bend the world to fit our own delusions is just not going to work.
Maybe I should give Ron a rest and stop watching his videos. It seems like same old / same old, every day now.

[drbubb]

Dave Schmidt has a more positive message concerning change, but...

 

March 23rd, Understanding the Power of Forgiveness

Published on Mar 22, 2016

Nothing can change your life or your world more than forgiveness when it is properly understood.

 

At a headline level, he is right.

Forgiveness can melt "hard" positions, and allow real change.

One reason that works, is that you no longer have to work so hard to fix blame.

 

RVD should think about this idea... Of Forgiveness.

My view is that he was the victim of his own delusions.

He tried to steal money from a bank, and buy a house that was "debt-free".

But the bank saw through his scam, and got the house.

 

To hide this sordid truth, RVD has worked so very hard to fix blame on the bank, and the bankers.

PROJECTING the villainy on others.

 

Maybe a first step would be for him to "forgive" the banks - ie drop the illusion that they are to blame.

If he did that, he might move towards something more positive in his life.

[drbubb]

GMOP got some new shirts... and they want to show them off - What else do we learn here?

 

Global Mission of Peace - who we are

The mission of GMoP.tv is to be the media expression of the awakening worldwide, both by celebrating positive developments and supporting them through education.

Maybe a T-shirt manufacturer got access to some Dragon funding (?)

 

It is interesting to see that they are not allowing comments.

Have they learned that from the way that prior videos attracted so many negative comments?

 

Message of Oneness or Dumbness ?

 

The Circle 555 - Connecting Global Consciousness

 

It could go either way: towards oneness or dumbness.

 

And this introductory video did not give me many clues that there was going to

be a powerful intelligent message coming out from the new GMoP-TV

 

Morgan sees the power of meditation (and good intentions) changing the world.

An interesting subject, for which there is actually some evidence.

But I did worry that we might be getting a recycling of The Secret, and its mythology

 

Shelley asks: "What happens when you are triggered?"

(Now this question is NOT a good sign. She speaks like a SJW who does not want to take

responsibility for her own thoughts and actions when she is "triggered."

This is the worst sort of irresponsible garbage. Not I should not let a sign question like

this disturb be willingness to have an open mind towards this new effort.)

 

Experience has taught me that those who want to Operate solely from good intentions,

is that they are easily manipulated by those who pretend to have good intentions,

but are hiding their true agenda (like the Ambassador)

[Red Panda]

If someone wants to take DS apart, I can help to formulate some questions for him too,

 

I don't think Dave is a liar, but I do think he is barking up the wrong tree. I think it is important to keep in mind his history contains time as a pastor, being heavily involved in religion, which is believing something to be true without evidence. He has stated that he believes the Ambassador is an angel and that the Dragon Family would fund the RV for "their own reasons".

 

Of course this makes no sense on the surface. Is there anything more to it? Events from the Ambassador's announcement a couple of years ago of funding projects to present day suggests that it is at best hopium and at worst, a money funnel.

 

The story from Landa China Global is almost the same, promising to fund projects, but the money is not yet available, despite claiming accounts holding quadrillions of dollars that will be transferred and available "soon".

[drbubb]

 

The story from Landa China Global is almost the same, promising to fund projects, but the money is not yet available, despite claiming accounts holding quadrillions of dollars that will be transferred and available "soon".

 

the claim of Quadrillions is IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

Wealth in that quantum simply does not exist on our planet

 

If you think it does, then please point me to where and how it is stored!

(I have looked hard, and cannot find any solid evidence for tangible wealth beyond $300-400 Trillion.

If you say "derivatives", then you do not understand what they are, and we need to have a conversation

about what a derivative is.)

[Ashllyne]

DrB - I agree with your insightful and sharp comments above. The power of discernment is key.

[drbubb]

I am not Wishing Depression on Ron, but...

If it is a brief stage leading to Acceptance, it is not such a bad thing

 

 

There are FIVE STAGES of normal grief that were first proposed by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross in her 1969 book “On Death and Dying.”

1. Denial and Isolation

(this was where Ron kept searching for lawyers that might take "his" side, and help him to file the right documents, that would allow him to stay in "his" house. All he could find were unscrupulous lawyers that would take his money for pretending to help in an impossible case.)

2. Anger

(This is where RVD seems to be for weeks, angry that he feels he has been cheated out of something that he believed was really was his - he was a true believer of the Big Delusion)

3. Bargaining

(Ron seemed to spend alternate days in this phase. He searched for a way to bargain with God, and get help, without it costing him to much money, which he doesnt have, or too much effort. Some of us tried to get him to leap-frog into a better "downsized" arrangement months ago, but he was too stuck in his comfortable old delusion to do that then.)

4. Depression

Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression.

(We be seeing Ron now slide into Depression, as he truly realizes there will be no way back to getting a free house.

5. Acceptance

Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone.

(Let's hope that Ron can get to the Acceptance phase before the end of the year, and that he will move into something genuinely positive, rather than another comfortable delusion.)

 

He said herein: "I was called by a lady who said she could help me take my case to the Int'l Court of Justice...

I don't know if I even want to fight it anymore." (!!!)

 

3-28-16 – REFLECTIONS: A MELANCHOLY EASTER

 

Published on Mar 27, 2016

It was a melancholy Easter for me. I did not go to church or any religious service. I reflected on my life and listened to my favorite band, The Seekers, over and over. I did see my grandson in the morning on the way to the store. He was riding his bike in his neighborhood. My son was gone all day. There were things I wanted to do; but they did not get done. Folks, I don't know what I want any more. Everything I ever saw as my life purpose seems completely out of reach. I don't want to die; but neither do I want to live without purpose or meaning. I was challenged Friday night to think positive. Yeah, right!

I've never felt so negative, so hopeless in my entire life. Those of you who understand what I'm going through, please pray for me as I go through this darkest night of my soul.

 

"I need to have a purpose"

"I have been waiting for a long time for the release of funds, and it doesn't happen. I don't know if that is another dream"

Ron, there are NO FUNDS in collateral accounts waiting to be released.

 

(this sound rather positive to me, as if RVD might actually be move towards Acceptance)

(I will say a pray from Ron. I will pray that he moves into real Acceptance soon, and discovers a valid new purpose, not another hopium dream.)

 

I gave the video a Thumbs Up.

[drbubb]

MONEY represents STORED PROMISES - I think my comment below explains it well.

Too many people have a very FLAWED understanding of how banks create money out of "thin air" (that is, backed by only promises. But the money they create commits them to pay it back - and is therefore part of a "web of promises"

 

== Comment ===

I don't see how having football fields full of gold underground will do us any good. As you say, with so much more gold, the price would crash.

What will change the world is directing energies into productive activities that will improve the day to day living conditions on this planet. As I have said before, it is not the amount of money that needs to change, it is how it flows that must change. Humanity is simply not there yet, and it may be quite some time before it is.

== Red Panda, Unquote ==

 

I agree.

Money represents stored value - or to put it another way: fiat money is a stored promise.

 

Example:

Today, I paint your house, and you pay me $50.

Tomorrow, two boys cut my lawn and wash my car, and I pay them $25 each (passing on your promise)

They used your old lawn mower to do it, and may have promised to buy the mower they borrowed.

The next day, they come back to you and pay $50 for your old lawnmower that they borrowed.

 

Net Result: Your House is painted, my lawn is mowed, and the boys own a lawn mower.

 

This transaction happens, in a way that we might not have been able to foresee clearly and arrange beforehand.

It was an efficient example of free market economics because all of us trusted in the promise represented by the $50 worth of currency that got passed back and forth, and wound up back in your hands.

None of us cared whether the currency was gold-backed or not. All we wanted was for the fiat currency to hold its value, for that brief period that we held it, before we spent it. In "normal" times of stable confidence, fiat currency will work just as well as a currency backed by gold, or some other commodity.

 

Therefore, I agree: a cave full of gold only helps if it can restore confidence in the promises of the US government,

or some other issuer of currency, at a time when those promises are becoming shaky and confidence is leaving the fiat currency. Governments must strive to maintain that confidence, or no one will want to hold their promise in the form of currency.

 

I get angry with RVD, because he exchanged his promise to repay the bank, for the bank's promise to advance him money.

Then he took the money advanced by the bank and bought a house. The bank delivered on their promise, when the gave him the currency to buy the house. But then Ron FAILED to keep his promise to repay them.

The rest of his story about them agreeing to forgive the loan (in return for signing a power of attorney) sounds implausible - I know how banks work!, and they do not do things like that. If they really promised, then Ron was bloody fool not to get the promise in writing. And lawyer would gave told him that.

 

Ron's argument that "banks do really lend money" - is truly absurd, especially when he got the money he used to buy the house from, the bank, and the seller of the home was happy to accept it. Ron's silly argument is nothing but a foolish attempt to justify his breaking of his promise to repay the loans. It is the sort of transparent lie that a deadbeat or con-artist would use.

 

Money creation - How it really works

People say: bank create money from thin air - That is true in a sense. But it is not the whole story.

 

When a bank lends money, and "creates it from thin air", it is NOT the same as counterfeiting !

 

In counterfeiting, someone prints up money in their basement, and hands the counterfeit currency out, as if it is real - fooling people into believing that a counterfeit note represents a real claim on a government issuer of currency. The bad note then gets passed around until it is discovered that it is counterfeit, then the person left holding it gets stuck with a valueless piece of paper and a loss.

 

This is NOT what happens when banks make loans!.

When a bank lends money into existence, they are bringing into creation a new "web of promises" in the following way:

 

+ A borrower signs a loan agreement, and exchanges his promise to repay, for the bank's promise to advance the loaned funds per the borrower's instruction. In Ron's case, it was to pay out money to the seller of his home (in Melbourne, Florida). The bank did that, the home seller got its money, and Ron was happy since he got the title and the keys to the house. But later, he broke his promise to repay the loan. This loan default threatened to leave the bank with a loss, but the bank recovered (some of) its money by gaining possession (after 10 long years) of the home that (promise-breaking) Ron lived in.

 

(What is supposed to happen when a bank lends money is this):

 

+ The bank pays out the money per the borrowers instructuions. And to keep its books balanced, it needs to attract a deposit, So it finds someone to put a deposit in the bank to match the money it paid out to the seller of a home. In an idealized world for this example, that deposit might come from the seller of the home that Ron bought.

 

Then, everything would be balanced:

 

+ BANK Holds Ron's promise to repay ...... : and that matches.... : A Deposit the bank promises to pay back

+ RON Holds a house, he financed............ : and that matches.... : The loan from the bank that Ron has promised to repay

+ SELLER has a deposit at Ron's bank..... : and that matches.... : The value of the home that it has surrendered to Ron,

 

The above shows a web of promises, that arises from Ron's borrowing and the bank's lending.

Since M2 Money includes Bank deposits, Total Money his increased through this loan, but no Free Money, outside the web of promises has been created. There is no Something-for-Nothing counterfeit money being created here!.

 

(Please note: the internet is full of bogus videos that claim there is something-for-nothing for the banks, have not properly understood how banks create money within a web of promises.)

 

If or world should move away from fractional banking...

Then we will be scrapping the present system, which allows rapid creation of money. Without this, it would slow down lending, and make loans more expensive. That may seem like a very good idea, when there is rapid inflation, but we now live in deflationary time. And so, the economy might grind to a halt. Is that what we truly want to see: a situation where it may be impossible for anyone to get a loan at all? If we ended fractional banking, and money became ultra-tight, then what might that do to the value of homes and other assets (like cars) that are often financed with bank debt?

[agaye]

Then we will be scrapping the present system, which allows rapid creation of money. Without this, it would slow down lending, and make loans more expensive. That may seem like a very good idea, when there is rapid inflation, but we now live in deflationary time. And so, the economy might grind to a halt. Is that what we truly want to see: a situation where it may be impossible for anyone to get a loan at all? If we ended fractional banking, and money became ultra-tight, then what might that do to the value of homes and other assets (like cars) that are often financed with bank debt?

 

MONEY represents STORED PROMISES - I think my comment below explains it well.

Too many people have a very FLAWED understanding of how banks create money out of "thin air" (that is, backed by only promises. But the money they create commits them to pay it back - and is therefore part of a "web of promises"

 

 

== Comment ===

I don't see how having football fields full of gold underground will do us any good. As you say, with so much more gold, the price would crash.

What will change the world is directing energies into productive activities that will improve the day to day living conditions on this planet. As I have said before, it is not the amount of money that needs to change, it is how it flows that must change. Humanity is simply not there yet, and it may be quite some time before it is.

== Red Panda, Unquote ==

 

 

I agree.

Money represents stored value - or to put it another way: fiat money is a stored promise.

 

Example:

Today, I paint your house, and you pay me $50.

Tomorrow, two boys cut my lawn and wash my car, and I pay them $25 each (passing on your promise)

They used your old lawn mower to do it, and may have promised to buy the mower they borrowed.

The next day, they come back to you and pay $50 for your old lawnmower that they borrowed.

 

Net Result: Your House is painted, my lawn is mowed, and the boys own a lawn mower.

 

This transaction happens, in a way that we might not have been able to foresee clearly and arrange beforehand.

It was an efficient example of free market economics because all of us trusted in the promise represented by the $50 worth of currency that got passed back and forth, and wound up back in your hands.

None of us cared whether the currency was gold-backed or not. All we wanted was for the fiat currency to hold its value, for that brief period that we held it, before we spent it. In "normal" times of stable confidence, fiat currency will work just as well as a currency backed by gold, or some other commodity.

 

Therefore, I agree: a cave full of gold only helps if it can restore confidence in the promises of the US government,

or some other issuer of currency, at a time when those promises are becoming shaky and confidence is leaving the fiat currency. Governments must strive to maintain that confidence, or no one will want to hold their promise in the form of currency.

 

I get angry with RVD, because he exchanged his promise to repay the bank, for the bank's promise to advance him money.

Then he took the money advanced by the bank and bought a house. The bank delivered on their promise, when the gave him the currency to buy the house. But then Ron FAILED to keep his promise to repay them.

The rest of his story about them agreeing to forgive the loan (in return for signing a power of attorney) sounds implausible - I know how banks work!, and they do not do things like that. If they really promised, then Ron was bloody fool not to get the promise in writing. And lawyer would gave told him that.

 

Ron's argument that "banks do really lend money" - is truly absurd, especially when he got the money he used to buy the house from, the bank, and the seller of the home was happy to accept it. Ron's silly argument is nothing but a foolish attempt to justify his breaking of his promise to repay the loans. It is the sort of transparent lie that a deadbeat or con-artist would use.

 

Money creation - How it really works

People say: bank create money from thin air - That is true in a sense. But it is not the whole story.

 

When a bank lends money, and "creates it from thin air", it is NOT the same as counterfeiting !

 

In counterfeiting, someone prints up money in their basement, and hands the counterfeit currency out, as if it is real - fooling people into believing that a counterfeit note represents a real claim on a government issuer of currency. The bad note then gets passed around until it is discovered that it is counterfeit, then the person left holding it gets stuck with a valueless piece of paper and a loss.

 

This is NOT what happens when banks make loans!.

When a bank lends money into existence, they are bringing into creation a new "web of promises" in the following way:

 

+ A borrower signs a loan agreement, and exchanges his promise to repay, for the bank's promise to advance the loaned funds per the borrower's instruction. In Ron's case, it was to pay out money to the seller of his home (in Melbourne, Florida). The bank did that, the home seller got its money, and Ron was happy since he got the title and the keys to the house. But later, he broke his promise to repay the loan. This loan default threatened to leave the bank with a loss, but the bank recovered (some of) its money by gaining possession (after 10 long years) of the home that (promise-breaking) Ron lived in.

 

(What is supposed to happen when a bank lends money is this):

 

+ The bank pays out the money per the borrowers instructuions. And to keep its books balanced, it needs to attract a deposit, So it finds someone to put a deposit in the bank to match the money it paid out to the seller of a home. In an idealized world for this example, that deposit might come from the seller of the home that Ron bought.

 

Then, everything would be balanced:

 

+ BANK Holds Ron's promise to repay ...... : and that matches.... : A Deposit the bank promises to pay back

+ RON Holds a house, he financed............ : and that matches.... : The loan from the bank that Ron has promised to repay

+ SELLER has a deposit at Ron's bank..... : and that matches.... : The value of the home that it has surrendered to Ron,

 

The above shows a web of promises, that arises from Ron's borrowing and the bank's lending.

Since M2 Money includes Bank deposits, Total Money his increased through this loan, but no Free Money, outside the web of promises has been created. There is no Something-for-Nothing counterfeit money being created here!.

 

(Please note: the internet is full of bogus videos that claim there is something-for-nothing for the banks, have not properly understood how banks create money within a web of promises.)

 

If or world should move away from fractional banking...

Then we will be scrapping the present system, which allows rapid creation of money. Without this, it would slow down lending, and make loans more expensive. That may seem like a very good idea, when there is rapid inflation, but we now live in deflationary time. And so, the economy might grind to a halt. Is that what we truly want to see: a situation where it may be impossible for anyone to get a loan at all? If we ended fractional banking, and money became ultra-tight, then what might that do to the value of homes and other assets (like cars) that are often financed with bank debt?

[agaye]

Excellent! Makes perfect sense to me.