GOLD

[allyjcambo]

Thank you Marceau. A fantastic post.

[alexreeve]

Anyone holding Perth Mint certificates?

 

http://news.goldseek.com/RichardDaughty/1213768920.php

 

Jason Hommel of the silverstockreport.com says that "If The Perth Mint is storing your metal, they admit that they may have loaned your metal out to AGR Matthey", which in turn, he says, shows that "AGR Matthey has well established relationships with the major bullion banks and regularly supplies to them on a contractual basis." What? Hahahaha!

 

And the proof is allegedly found in the notation that "The $880 million of precious metals deposited by Perth Mint Depository clients (note 17) was used in operations by Gold Corporation as inventory ($381 million - Note 8b)."

 

Unbelievably, this looks like they are taking your money and buying silver for you, and then loaning the silver to people who sell it, dumping it on the market, driving the price of silver down, which is the opposite of what you wanted when you bought the Perth Mint certificates!

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7460475.stm

 

 

Hey, ho! Food and fuel prices go up. Let's make sure at least wages don't!

 

Love it!

 

another one trying to keep the masses down

 

13% seems about right to me - to avoid having a pay cut

 

 

The business secretary has issued a warning about inflationary pay rises after tanker drivers working for Shell settled a pay dispute with employers.

 

The deal came after a four-day strike by the drivers. They had originally wanted a 13% pay rise, and turned down 7%. Their final deal is not yet known.

 

John Hutton said the deal reflected the particular conditions in the industry.

 

He said: "There needs to be discipline in public and private sector pay if we are to keep inflation under control."

 

 

 

[drminky]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7460475.stm

 

 

Hey, ho! Food and fuel prices go up. Let's make sure at least wages don't!

 

Love it!

 

Its a joke isn't it? Typical ass-backwards thinking from our elected representatives. Governments are so desperate to hold wages down, they are completely blind to the fact that by doing so, they will send the housing market and economy into a tailspin, as the working and middle classes get crushed into financial oblivion. In holding down nominal wages, they completely short-circuit about the ONLY advantage of currency devaluation - relieving the real debt burden on the people, so instead, we just get all the negatives of inflation. How exactly is the economy supposed to recover when all our wages won't afford enough food to eat and gas to heat?

[G0ldfinger]

Anyone holding Perth Mint certificates?

 

http://news.goldseek.com/RichardDaughty/1213768920.php

Interesting stuff. I am looking forward to the Mint's reply.

[G0ldfinger]

Its a joke isn't it? Typical ass-backwards thinking from our elected representatives. Governments are so desperate to hold wages down, they are completely blind to the fact that by doing so, they will send the housing market and economy into a tailspin, as the working and middle classes get crushed into financial oblivion. In holding down nominal wages, they completely short-circuit about the ONLY advantage of currency devaluation - relieving the real debt burden on the people, so instead, we just get all the negatives of inflation. How exactly is the economy supposed to recover when all our wages won't afford enough food to eat and gas to heat?

There was also talk of weak trade unions etc. How quickly do you think will people join the unions once they see how they're going to get squeezed? It's going to be very quick IMO.

[G0ldfinger]

Jim Sinclair now getting very active on illegal shorts.

 

Dear CIGAs,

 

I respectfully request that each member of the JSMineset community send this missive to the management of their precious and base metals junior investment company. Please follow up on it to be sure it has been reviewed.

 

 

 

Strength In Numbers

 

The junior producer and exploration and development companies need to consider the formation of a Chamber of Mines for this section of the industry.

 

This Chamber should be free of any individual company agenda, free of fees and other interferences with the singular intention of protecting our shareholders from being attacked by those in the shadowy part of finance.

 

There are close to 2000 companies in this part of the industry, many of which are experiencing the same extreme nuisances.

 

The naked gold short seller is an entity engaged in a criminal act with a goal of doing serious injury for the purpose of profit and is therefore a major target in terms of civil liability. The short and naked short pool operations are exactly the same but more apt to be a conspiracy to injure slightly then become subject to RICO statutes.

 

The job of this working Chamber of Mines as a singular unit is to pull these criminals out of the shadows into the light of day.

 

No matter how well they feel they are hidden there is always a paper trail going back to the perpetrator in this financial world.

 

Certain financial areas of secrecy in many cases do not protect the spoils of criminal activities. This may be proven soon at UBS where an officer is under arrest in the USA and is due to go to court shortly.

 

It does not mean anything that neither regulators nor exchanges care about the naked short or short selling pools, regardless of whether they are naked or not. If the stockholders and the company who’s values have been injured initiate civil proceedings, discovery will be full of legal opportunity. You cannot erase the paper trail that exists to every transaction.

 

 

 

My request is simple:

 

Contact the management of every junior precious metals producer, exploration and developer, asking them to contact Editor Dan at information@jsmineset.com so that the Chamber can take form.

 

There is no hidden agenda, no money to be collected, and no desire to stroke egos and no desire for private corporate information. I do not wish to be anything but a member. Let the organization elect its officers so we can act as one. We can speak as one. We can win as one, but we are weak when scattered as the industry is now. Organize and we are a legion. Expose the perpetrators and then it is all over. The data is there. It can be organized and it can be dissected, yielding the evidence trail of those who wish to hurt, sometime simply because they are mean, sometimes for illicit profits.

 

Add to that that sociopaths mistreat their associates and employees by nature. No looking may be required. It might just happen to come over the transom, even though we do not invite that.

 

You stockholders must push your management hard. Personally there is nothing that I will NOT do in order to protect both my and my investors’ interests.

 

I herewith dedicate my life, my fortune and all that I am to the identification of the perpetrators and their conduits used. Those sociopaths that take joy by inflicting severe injury for profit by conspiracy and the use of dirty tricks must be the hunted of nearly 2000 company’s determined managements and their more than 500,000 very angry stockholders.

 

There is only one way to defend stockholders, which is through the organization and strategy of a major offensive. Forget attorneys at this point. Regulators are of no help. A Chamber of Mines acting together can prevail.

 

I will even if I must go it alone.

 

Together we are legion. Alone and looking the other way you are a victim. I have never been a victim. No one depending on me will be a victim.

 

There is NOTHING I will not do to protect those that depend on me. I am livid. Enough is enough.

 

We will add risk to the bad guys. That proposition you and they can depend on.

 

Your friend,

Jim Sinclair

[drminky]

There was also talk of weak trade unions etc. How quickly do you think will people join the unions once they see how they're going to get squeezed? It's going to be very quick IMO.

 

IF you are lucky enough to even HAVE a union!

 

People I talk to know they are being squeezed, but there's a sense of resignation that there's little anyone can do about it. Wages in my industry have been nominally static since 2000 or so, and I'd wager my industry is not at all unique.. Unless you are lucky enough to be in an industry that is benefitting from the commodities boom, there's just not the margins there to be pressing for pay rises.. Why? because wages are being held down, so noones got money to spend, yet input costs continue to go up, so margins are squeezed, so wages are further held down. Viscous spiral..

 

Its pretty sad that about the ONLY thing to be in permanent real deflation, never taking any benefit from all the money creation, whether its boom or bust is the price of human labour ..unless you were a banker, that is..

[G0ldfinger]

...

Its pretty sad that about the ONLY thing to be in permanent real deflation, never taking any benefit from all the money creation, whether its boom or bust is the price of human labour ..unless you were a banker, that is..

Yes, it's sad. But I still think upward pressure on wages will grow.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...bcnmonet117.xml

Hawks fear that Britain is on the cusp of a 1970s wage price spiral: doves fear a deflationary crunch that may lie beyond as the triple effects of the lending squeeze, the housing slump, and the global slowdown all combine to send prices into a sharp fall.

I am a hawk and a dove at the same time, because I think all of the above will happen at the same time. It's going to be an inflationary slump. Double whammy for house owners: the price will slump a lot, and the price will be worth much less.

 

Why oh why can't people see that all this could happen at the same time?

[Justin Thyme]

IF you are lucky enough to even HAVE a union!

 

People I talk to know they are being squeezed, but there's a sense of resignation that there's little anyone can do about it. Wages in my industry have been nominally static since 2000 or so, and I'd wager my industry is not at all unique.. Unless you are lucky enough to be in an industry that is benefitting from the commodities boom, there's just not the margins there to be pressing for pay rises.. Why? because wages are being held down, so noones got money to spend, yet input costs continue to go up, so margins are squeezed, so wages are further held down. Viscous spiral..

 

Its pretty sad that about the ONLY thing to be in permanent real deflation, never taking any benefit from all the money creation, whether its boom or bust is the price of human labour ..unless you were a banker, that is..

 

You're right there but I think it's just a matter of time before we start seeing RPI-based wage demands from the public sector. I'd be very pissed off if the nurses get less than the RPI but the rozzers can whistle for it as far as I'm concerned . . .

 

[hotspur]

Welcome hotsput, are you in gut city by any chance?

 

bee

yes

[hotspur]

yes

i hit the wrong button writing my name should be R-by the way tottenham are chasing podolski i wonder any euro per kilo lol

[bitbigt]

Its a joke isn't it? Typical ass-backwards thinking from our elected representatives. Governments are so desperate to hold wages down, they are completely blind to the fact that by doing so, they will send the housing market and economy into a tailspin, as the working and middle classes get crushed into financial oblivion. In holding down nominal wages, they completely short-circuit about the ONLY advantage of currency devaluation - relieving the real debt burden on the people, so instead, we just get all the negatives of inflation. How exactly is the economy supposed to recover when all our wages won't afford enough food to eat and gas to heat?

I'm usually the last one to agree with the actions of this government, but on the issue of wage restraint I can see their logic. They are not, as drminky suggests, doing this to keep wage inflation low to "send the housing market and economy into a tailspin", but instead they are simply VERY scared that a wage-price spiral could develop which really would devestate absoutely everything.

 

So that's the main point to notice in all of this - a wage-price spiral as we had back in the 70's is now a VERY real possibility. ...and I would argue, actually quite likely! PM's will rocket in such a scenario, and we may find ourselves there in just 12-24 months on current trends.

[Chubbs]

20. "Executive Order 6102 Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates

 

By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5 ( B ) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled "An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes", in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order...

 

All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:

 

What would this actually entail? If gold was stored with BullionVault I could see trading being suspended, but can it actually be seized from the small holders that also use this system? Was there any compensation in 1933, or was any investment just lost?

[romans holiday]

Anyone holding Perth Mint certificates?

 

http://news.goldseek.com/RichardDaughty/1213768920.php

 

Peter Schiff, who is into Perth Mint, addressed this issue a few weeks back. You can check his weekly radio podcasts here.

 

http://www.europac.net/radioshow.asp

[hotspur]

so the BIS has report a deriatives position of 1.14 QUADRILLION $ (1 140 000 000 000 000) now thats a big bet lol if you all the gold in the world which is about 155 000 tons you get a number that sounds silly 201 612,9 $ the oz hope im not wrong or i look silly lol

[rich6400]

What would this actually entail? If gold was stored with BullionVault I could see trading being suspended, but can it actually be seized from the small holders that also use this system? Was there any compensation in 1933, or was any investment just lost?

 

 

Wikipedia is good for info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

 

Essentially what happened is that the US government made it illegal to hold gold other than for jewellery purposes. They forced (compensated) the Americans to sell their gold to the state for around 20 dollars an ounce. The following year the US government announced that the price of gold was 35 dollars an ounce.

 

 

[mattyboy]

Peter Schiff made an interesting point in one of his recent radiocasts - last weeks maybe. He questioned the wage-price spiral mechanism itself. His point being that inflation is the expansion of the money supply, prices go up as a result - wages are simply the price of labour. That we see wages and goods prices rise at the same time is no coincidence nor evidence of a wage-price spiral, just evidence of an increasing money supply.

I'd be curious to know what people think of that idea, and whether there is real evidence out there for the wage/price feedback mechanism - given that we know that inflation itself is simply an increase in the money supply.

The union thing Goldfinger touched on - I agree completely. People comment on the weakness of the unions now but we have had a couple of cushy decades. I wouldn't underestimate the UK population - when they see the need to get off their backsides they will (eventually).

matt

 

[drminky]

I'm usually the last one to agree with the actions of this government, but on the issue of wage restraint I can see their logic. They are not, as drminky suggests, doing this to keep wage inflation low to "send the housing market and economy into a tailspin", but instead they are simply VERY scared that a wage-price spiral could develop which really would devestate absoutely everything.

 

So that's the main point to notice in all of this - a wage-price spiral as we had back in the 70's is now a VERY real possibility. ...and I would argue, actually quite likely! PM's will rocket in such a scenario, and we may find ourselves there in just 12-24 months on current trends.

 

Sorry, you seem to have misunderstood. i'm not saying they are DELIBERATELY trying to send the housing market and economy into a tailspin.. quite the opposite. And its true they are afraid of the wage-price spiral repeat of the 1970s. But they are trying to have their cake and eat it too, and it simply cannot work forever - something has to give. They are debasing the currency with reckless abandon in order to bail out the banks, yet trying to hold down wages. So real wages get crushed and the middle and lower classes get squeezed. Sure, it means they can go on printing money for a bit longer without it showing up in the cpi numbers as much (as deflating real wages hold down the so-called 'cost-push' inflation somewhat), but sending your consumer base into food and fuel poverty is going to be devastating to the economy in the long run. They have got away with it until last october by loading the consumer up with debt to keep the party going, but what will they do now? Consumption of non-essentials is going to take a long long slide to oblivion for all but the wealthiest, taking those industries down with it..

 

 

- "The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists." - Hemingway

[Steve Netwriter]

Returning to Gold Money

by Steve Saville

http://www.safehaven.com/article-10537.htm

 

Apart from the government/bank alliance's desire to maintain control of the money supply, ignorance is the biggest obstacle facing the return of gold to its traditional monetary role. The vast majority of people, including some intelligent and thoughtful people, believe the dual fallacies that the supply of money must grow at a certain rate to support economic growth and that in times of stress the government can help the economy by increasing its borrowing/spending (financed by increasing the money supply). Also, very few people understand the link between the rising prices that they complain about and the increase in the supply of money, a lack of understanding that the representatives of governments and central banks take every opportunity to nurture. For example, the statements emanating from this weekend's meeting of G8 finance ministers were worded as if rising commodity prices were the CAUSE of the problem rather than a SYMPTOM of what was happening to money (as far as we can tell, the increase in the supply of money was not even mentioned). For another example, at this same meeting US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson should have 'brought the house down' when, according to this article, he "urged countries to let markets work, not rely on subsidies". This really was a funny thing for him to say given that the subsidies and tariffs put in place to protect the US ethanol and sugar-growing industries are probably the second most important cause of rising grain prices. The image of a pot pointing at a kettle and yelling "You're black!" springs to mind, and yet most people take such statements at face value.

 

For some strange reason, despite the continual flood of lies spewing forth from the halls of government and the mountain of evidence that economic well-being and freedom from government meddling are positively correlated, there is a general distrust of the free market.

[Steve Netwriter]

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert

 

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International Business Editor

Last Updated: 7:40am BST 18/06/2008

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation paralyses the major central banks.

 

"A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared," said Bob Janjuah, the bank's credit strategist.

 

A report by the bank's research team warns that the S&P 500 index of Wall Street equities is likely to fall by more than 300 points to around 1050 by September as "all the chickens come home to roost" from the excesses of the global boom, with contagion spreading across Europe and emerging markets.

 

RBS issues global stock and credit crash alert

RBS warning: Be prepared for a 'nasty' period

 

Such a slide on world bourses would amount to one of the worst bear markets over the last century.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...18/cnrbs118.xml

 

Can anyone spot the glaring paragraph in there ?

I'll give you a clue. It mentions "safe haven".

[Magpie]

Peter Schiff made an interesting point in one of his recent radiocasts - last weeks maybe. He questioned the wage-price spiral mechanism itself. His point being that inflation is the expansion of the money supply, prices go up as a result - wages are simply the price of labour. That we see wages and goods prices rise at the same time is no coincidence nor evidence of a wage-price spiral, just evidence of an increasing money supply.

I'd be curious to know what people think of that idea, and whether there is real evidence out there for the wage/price feedback mechanism

 

I'd say that's disingenuous, and an attempt to assert that all inflation is monetary inflation.

 

Now of course monetary inflation causes prices to rise. But the evidence of the 1970s is that when costs rise, workers become far more militant about demanding pay rises. And also that this militancy persists even past the moment of maximum inflation in costs - the idea of 10% or whatever a year becomes normal, and people feel cheated if they don't get it - one reason the unions became a problem in the late 1970s. Then if the wages are pushed up, of course costs get pushed up.

 

We have a global economy so some of the effects of this may be more muted than in the past, but even so it's only common sense that if prices rise for whatever reason, people become more motivated to ask for more money. Employers don't pay more for labour voluntarily, so higher money supply doesn't lead directly to wages rising, only via wage demands.

 

[mattyboy]

I'd say that's disingenuous, and an attempt to assert that all inflation is monetary inflation.

Employers don't pay more for labour voluntarily, so higher money supply doesn't lead directly to wages rising, only via wage demands.

 

I believe the definition of inflation is expansion of the money supply?

 

Your argument in bold would apply equally to goods price inflation. I don't voluntarily pay more for something than I have to, but there is more money chasing the resource, the price goes up.

Whether that resource is a packet of crisps or an hour of labour the same mechanism is at work.

 

Of course there are other reasons than monetary inflation that drive price increases.

 

 

[Magpie]

I believe the definition of inflation is expansion of the money supply?

 

I just meant that he is trying to deny any other mechanisms.

 

Personally I think it's useful to distinguish different meanings of inflation - monetary inflation, cost inflation, wage inflation, asset inflation etc. Defining inflation as monetary inflation is fair enough, but it you also need a vocabulary to describe events such as the post-Black Death inflation, which wasn't to do with money increasing, but to do with demand falling. So in my view, that was a price inflation, not caused by a monetary inflation. But most price or wage inflations do tend to derive from monetary inflation.

 

Your argument in bold would apply equally to goods price inflation. I don't voluntarily pay more for something than I have to, but there is more money chasing the resource, the price goes up.

Whether that resource is a packet of crisps or an hour of labour the same mechanism is at work.

 

Yes, but then why do prices and wages continue to increase after the money supply is constrained? Because expectations have been set and because the wage-price spiral continues to operate.

 

I think it's fair enough to point out that the fundamental cause is monetary inflation, but the actual mechanism through which it operates is also worth examining. We've had huge money supply growth in the past without a wage-price spiral. Why? Because globalisation kept the costs of goods low, and even though asset prices were rising sharply this didn't affect most people (other than via house prices), so wage demands weren't too strong. Now that inflation is feeding into everyday costs, wage demands will rise. The monetary inflation is the same, but the effects are different.

 

[electroweak]

Eskom, South Africa just announced a 27.5% increase in electricity supply costs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...mp;refer=africa

 

Anyone know how much gold is actually coming out of the SA mines lately? Are they still shut down due to power outages??