Magpie Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 This is true... Thanks - I'll reply in the money thread as I'm conscious of taking up goldbug bandwidth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
id5 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Money creation (as in fiat, fractional reserve etc) can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing, depending on what use it is put to. A silly example I often refer to is babysitting circles who use tokens to exchange babysitting nights. They have created a kind of money from nothing. I do not see this as the same thing as the members of the circle have created a debt to each other. With fiat, fractional reserve, etc one of the members of the circle has created a fictional token of one babysitting session and the token then has been passed on to another member. They have effectively said ‘Thanks for babysitting for me. Here is a token for a babysitting session for your effort, a promise in the future that I will expend effort for you’. One problem is that the person that has been given the token and the majority of the members or the babysitting circle do not fully realise or understand that the token has not been created from some form of effort that equates to the value of the token and the original creator of the token will most probably never expend the effort promised. There is not a problem that the total supply of tokens in the circle has increased. There is a problem that someone has received something for nothing. This would never be noticed if the value of the tokens was never questioned and the number of tokens never diminished to less than the number of ‘tokens created from no effort’. When the number of tokens were less then someone would have to do something for effectively nothing or more likely, people would not accept the token and the token holder would have a worthless token all because it was not created from some form of effort. The state has created money out of thin air to expand the economy which is a good thing only if the economy always grows. If the economy shrinks then people begin to question the value of the currency. If the currency collapses then the token holder is holding nothing but scrap paper. All smoke and mirrors and if involved an entity other than the state as a backer, entirely illegal, fraud I think. There is also the growing first problem, that of understanding of what is going on, taking to various people I think that they are now beginning to understand how money gets created, the smoke is beginning to clear and the mirrors are getting dusty. Sooner or later they are going to look behind the mirrors and see that nothing is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Again interesting, if we break back above $864 and hold to the close there's the possibility of a bear trap and rally. Very dangerous to be short here. Very stupid as well, the risk/reward is monumental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I do not see ... Again, I'll reply in the money thread, not here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drminky Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 200 DMA quickly approaching now. Seems to have taken forever! Not only that, look at the positive divergence on the RSI and MACD from the low in early May to this new low in June. Downside momentum is stalling.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drminky Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Do you have any stats to back that up? 1972 according to this data from the Labour Research Organisation, but close enough.. http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+...%281964-2004%29 ..of course, the REAL picture from the 80s onwards would be far worse if proper inflation figures were used in the adjustments.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrongmove Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I was thinking that. But on the other hand gold hasnt really made a parabolic move yet, and when demand increases supply is unlikely to meet it Well I guess it took about a decade of "property porn" before that bubble finally burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drminky Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 1972 according to this data from the Labour Research Organisation, but close enough.. http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+...%281964-2004%29 ..of course, the REAL picture from the 80s onwards would be far worse if proper inflation figures were used in the adjustments.. Actually, just did a rough calculation based on John Williams' Shadowstats CPI numbers, and the picture is far more grim! For the most recent numbers (2004), I'm getting back approximately $113 in 1982 dollars.. thats about 1/3 the real wages of 1972! ..ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Gold Calls - on the etf Anyone else trading calls on GLD, the Gold etf? I'm looking at GLDGC Description CALL (GLD) SPDR GOLD TR GOLD JUL 81 Price: about $5.00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgnao Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Gold Calls - on the etf Anyone else trading calls on GLD, the Gold etf? I'm looking at GLDGC Description CALL (GLD) SPDR GOLD TR GOLD JUL 81 Price: about $5.00 Today I loaded up on these @4.1 EUR. ISIN CH0024125145 Call 1.000,00 USD 14.09.09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernull Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Again interesting, if we break back above $864 and hold to the close there's the possibility of a bear trap and rally. Very dangerous to be short here. Very stupid as well, the risk/reward is monumental. I am in. If oil passes 139.50 gold & silver probably to jump fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgnao Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I say the bottom is in. Next move up will be monumental and FAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I say the bottom is in. Next move up will be monumental and FAST. I'm with you. Fundamentals unchanged yet sentiment and price at a massive low. All of the longs have been washed out and everyone who is going to short has now done so. When everyone who is going to sell has sold, there's only one way it can go - up. We may sit down at these levels for a while longer, but as that Fed rate decision on the 25th approaches, all the strong dollar muppets are just going to disappear. Talk is cheap, actions matter, when the Fed doesn't do what the market expects, all hell will break loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I say the bottom is in. Next move up will be monumental and FAST. I guess this here could help: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home Moody's, Under Pressure From Regulators, to Change Muni Ratings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted June 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 On top of that as outlined before, approaching a long-term moving average we could see some strong buyers moving in soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzers Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 FWIW I still think we will touch 850 one more time. I have bought some gold in my trading account and will buy more at 850. I missed a silver fill by 2c today. Annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgnao Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 DOW looks really ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Inclined to agree that the bottom is in. Kind of irrelevant really though, as my long term target is in excess of $2000. I'm going to be buying some 1oz gold eagles this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 DOW looks really ugly I agree the DOW shows a nasty head and shoulders developing. A break below 12000 and there is very little support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwizzie Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Anyone else looking at LBUL.L or LSIL.L ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Thyme Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 We may sit down at these levels for a while longer, but as that Fed rate decision on the 25th approaches, all the strong dollar muppets are just going to disappear. Talk is cheap, actions matter, when the Fed doesn't do what the market expects, all hell will break loose. Hmm . . . But just to be on the safe side, I'll think I'll play safe and have a hedgie in place like the last time the Fed kneed us where it hurts with the 75bp cut instead of the 100 everyone was expecting. If, for whatever reason, the Fed were to sling another 25bp on the funds rate, gold would see something of a dip . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgnao Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I agree the DOW shows a nasty head and shoulders developing. A break below 12000 and there is very little support. Just went in the red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electroweak Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I agree the DOW shows a nasty head and shoulders developing. A break below 12000 and there is very little support. next stop 11,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Inclined to agree that the bottom is in. Kind of irrelevant really though, as my long term target is in excess of $2000. I'm going to be buying some 1oz gold eagles this week. Hi Errol, Where do you get your eagles from as goldline and ATS always seem to be out of them. I havnt bought anything from coininvest before, always been put off as they are not a BNTA member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgnao Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 The US GLD ETF just added 8 tonnes, back over 600 tonnes. http://www.exchangetradedgold.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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