SILVER

[aardvark]

i like the 1kg coins and wouldn't mind one of the new tigers - they are £100 more than when i last got one though

[electroweak]

In fact, on CID, the 1oz silver Philharmoniker and Maples are cheaper. I might go for Maples - they make good SHTF money.

Interesting, the face value on a silver 1 oz maple is 5 (loonie) dollars, I think that's the highest of any other comparable coin (the 1 oz Gold maple is only 50 (loonie) dollars!). 10:1 eh?

[grumpy-old-man]

In fact, on CID, the 1oz silver Philharmoniker and Maples are cheaper. I might go for Maples - they make good SHTF money.

 

yes, they are nice aren't they.....stop tempting me GF.

also fwiw, I prefer the gold maples to the gold brittania's personally.

[G0ldfinger]

I feel a little weird about it since we're essentially at a 29-year high. But Turdling looks weak here (now that even Merv has abandoned it), and silver has never lost any of its lustre. The other thing is: I just still need more coins of smaller denominations. I don't want to go shopping with 1 oz or even 1/4 oz gold coins when TSHTF. Silver is just everyone's everyday money. Hence smaller silver coins. It's only a smaller amount anyway.

 

EDIT: I think I'll go 50-50 Eagles and Maples. Coins of the Realm.

[G0ldfinger]

http://jsmineset.com/2009/09/28/jims-mailbox-239/

Silver in my opinion will be pulled two ways at first, up by gold and down by the economy. This will result in price indifference until gold’s upward momentum becomes the greater influence.

[ziknik]

...

I just still need more coins of smaller denominations. I don't want to go shopping with 1 oz or even 1/4 oz gold coins when TSHTF. Silver is just everyone's everyday money. Hence smaller silver coins. It's only a smaller amount anyway.

 

EDIT: I think I'll go 50-50 Eagles and Maples. Coins of the Realm.

 

I've picked up a few hundred thousand 3d and 6d from ebay for the same reason.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-Silver-Threepenc...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50-x-6d-SIXPENCE-pre...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

EDIT: BTW, I'm not recommending either of the sellers. I haven't bought anything from them

[G0ldfinger]

Oops, there goes my silver purchase.

 

 

EDIT: It's back on now. I guess I just got timed out?

 

EDIT2: Maples come in tubes of 25 from the mint, Eagles in tubes of 20. So any purchase of multiples of that should come in the original tubes at no additional cost is my guess.

[Jake]

I feel a little weird about it since we're essentially at a 29-year high. But Turdling looks weak here (now that even Merv has abandoned it), and silver has never lost any of its lustre. The other thing is: I just still need more coins of smaller denominations. I don't want to go shopping with 1 oz or even 1/4 oz gold coins when TSHTF. Silver is just everyone's everyday money. Hence smaller silver coins. It's only a smaller amount anyway.

 

EDIT: I think I'll go 50-50 Eagles and Maples. Coins of the Realm.

 

On smaller coins and denominations...have you considered Franklin half Dollars? Or Washington Quarters or Roosevelt (spit) Dimes. For me they are the cheapest over spot and they have a bit of history on their side having actually been used as money. I like Kennedy 64's too but they come in less (quantity) than the Franklins though they will have a slightly higher numismatic value I imagine. When I hold a 1941 Quarter or a 1945 Walking Liberty and see the wear and tear marks of life in them, there is an eerie feeling. If those old coins could talk they'd speak volumes. Imagination is good however...

 

I wish I had as good an understanding of British old silver and I'm happy to learn if anyone would like to show me a few pointers. As a thicko I like the simplicity of US coinage and I like the freedom from all the royalty baggage. Franklin, Washington, Kennedy etc all great guys IMO. Pre 64 US are basically 90% silver. The sums are easy.

 

For pure bullion silver coins I go with the cheapest or the most beautiful (to me) within reason (cost) or whatever is available. That means phillies, maples, eagles, the ozzie gamut, libertads, brits, pandas,etc. I'm not into 'rounds' preferring lumpier bullion blocks or the large 1kg coins which are farcically funny IMO. I'd love to see the cash registers face if I bust out my 1kg coins to pay the groceries. Kookaburras are the laughing bird after all, I wonder if it was not chosen on purpose.

 

My wife thinks it odd I buy 'money with money' and I must say it whiffs of insanity really...except when you think that the money I have 'bought' has increased in value tremendously. Wife likes this part.

 

Looking forward to my tigers next freshly 2010 stamped. Cant believe we are here all ready and wonder how long it will be possible to buy silver/gold coins at all. 2016? I'll look forward to see those coins. Will they be dollars, yuan, amero, pounds, euros, pesos? Who knows. In the meantime I think it wise to stock up on every variety available wherever you are and whatever your pocket. David Morgans advice of just allocating every month a set amount is good discipline. I like David Morgan. I like Doug Casey. I like Ian Gordon. I even like Robert Prechter! I understand their voices, their resonance. I hate Bernanke's twisted vocabulary, I hate Browns lies, even Mervyn King has started to get on my nerves as he has become vacuumed into the hegemony of politicians/central bankers lies. At heart I think he is an honourable man caught in a very difficult position. In the end he/they will just walk away from their jobs with fat pay outs in foreign countries/currencies, I imagine. Morgan,Casey and Gordon cant do that. Well. Kind of. Maybe thats why I hear their discipline and they are worthy of respect IMO.

 

Ok I need a nap now. I am wandering. But smaller denominations are good I think. I think it was id5 who somewhere said you need different tools for different jobs. This is very good advice. And it stuck in my mind. Gold will be far too valuable till the endgame. Buying. Silver bullion maybe too. We need small scrap/rubbish/tradeable/barterable silver too, in order to protect the big pile from use. That is the way I am thinking now anyways. Fill up that tool box with all the tools you can muster. I've even got a lot of copper coins now. Metal content is worth more than the face. Perhaps cupro nickel would be worth saving too if numismatically memorable.

 

Nap time.

[ziknik]

...

I wish I had as good an understanding of British old silver and I'm happy to learn if anyone would like to show me a few pointers. As a thicko I like the simplicity of US coinage and I like the freedom from all the royalty baggage. Franklin, Washington, Kennedy etc all great guys IMO. Pre 64 US are basically 90% silver. The sums are easy.

...

 

1920 to 1946 silver coins are 50% silver

1919 and previous are 92.5% sivler

 

The best unit to remember is the Shilling. There are 20 Shillings in a pound (Guinea / Sovereign). A shilling is 12 pence.

 

Silver coins are:

 

3d - 3 pence

6d - 6 pence (2 x 3d)

Shilling - 12 pence (2 x 6d)

Florin - 24 pence (2 x shilling)

Half Crown - 30 pence (2.5 x shilling)

Crown - 60 pence (5 x shilling)

 

There are silver 1d, 2d & 4d (also called groat) knocking around. These were Maundy Money, not really intended for general circulation. You would get a good price for these if you got a nice one.

 

Silver 3d was replaced with brass/nickel in 1937 for circulation. Maundy Money 3d stayed silver (I think)

[wren]

Are the old British silver coins free of capital gains tax?

 

I hadn't seen silver 3d coins. I remember the old 3d coins with was it 7 sides?

 

I'm just old enough to remember when they changed to the decimal system (I was 6, I think). When my dad came home from work I asked him if he had any of the new money (we each already had a set of them in a presentation case which were sold before the changeover).

 

He looked in his pocket and gave me a 50 pence piece (10 bob!). You could buy a lot of sweets with ten bob back then.

 

Are the sixpenny bits of that time 50% silver?

 

Slang I remember:

 

tanner - sixpenny bit

bob - shilling (5p today)

10 bob note - half a pound (50p today)

 

Shortenings:

 

ha'penny (1/2 d)

tuppence (2d)

thruppence (3d)

thruppenny bit

 

Not sure of the spelling of those.

 

The old LSD system: £ /- d

(pounds, shillings, pence)

[aardvark]

Are the old British silver coins free of capital gains tax?

 

as they are no longer legal currency, i assume not.

[G0ldfinger]

The coins that I have, gold and silver, will possibly never be sold by me. Since coins are the smaller (and somewhat more precious to me) fraction of my gold/silver savings, the vaulted stuff will go first when I decide to sell. The coins are real SHTF money, so I will hold on to them for as long as possible.

 

How many ounce of silver did a worker earn a week in the early 20th century?

[nicejim]

A note on Ebay to help value British coins' silver content

http://reviews.ebay.com/British-coins-silv...000000001664130

 

[wren]

How many ounce of silver did a worker earn a week in the early 20th century?

My own summary of the data:

 

Average wage paid building craftsmen 1850-1899=24 grams silver

Average wage paid to laborers 1850-1899=13.8 grams silver

Average wage paid Building craftsmen 1900-1913=63.9 grams silver

Average wage paid to laborers 1900-1913=39.5 grams silver

 

The calculations above are based upon the wage rates (in grams of silver/day) of the following cities in the years between 1850-1913: Antwerp, London, Milan, Naples, Venice, Amsterdam, Florence, Valencia, Madrid, Paris, Vienna, Warsaw, Leipzig, Stockholm, Hamburg, and several others.

 

The combined average equals 35.3 grams of silver/day which is equivalent to about 1.5 troy ounces, or about 1.5 silver dollars. Though this is certainly greater than 1 silver dime, it is a mean, not an absolute measurement. Many of the workers in certain cities of the world made much less than 39.5 grams of silver a day, just take a look at the data if you are curious.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/zurbuchen120405.html

About an ounce or two per day.

[Jake]

A note on Ebay to help value British coins' silver content

http://reviews.ebay.com/British-coins-silv...000000001664130

 

Excellent nj. Thanks a lot! I guess a few hours researching the types of coins, dates and equiv in troy ounces will be my sunday morning. It seems only really worthwhile picking up pre 1920 coins, unless you become a serious collector (which I am trying to resist). I bet they are well worn and when in good condition are expensive. Roll on sunday.

[G0ldfinger]

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/zurbuchen120405.html

About an ounce or two per day.

Thanks Wren.

 

I am a little confused about the 35g being 1.5 oz. 35g = 1.1254 oz according to my calculator.

[Jake]

1920 to 1946 silver coins are 50% silver

1919 and previous are 92.5% sivler

 

The best unit to remember is the Shilling. There are 20 Shillings in a pound (Guinea / Sovereign). A shilling is 12 pence.

 

Silver coins are:

 

3d - 3 pence

6d - 6 pence (2 x 3d)

Shilling - 12 pence (2 x 6d)

Florin - 24 pence (2 x shilling)

Half Crown - 30 pence (2.5 x shilling)

Crown - 60 pence (5 x shilling)

 

There are silver 1d, 2d & 4d (also called groat) knocking around. These were Maundy Money, not really intended for general circulation. You would get a good price for these if you got a nice one.

 

Silver 3d was replaced with brass/nickel in 1937 for circulation. Maundy Money 3d stayed silver (I think)

 

Thanks Ziknik. So is a Guinea the same as a Sovereign? And did 20 shillings really equal a gold sovereign? Thus 4 crowns for a sovereign? 8 half crowns:1 sovereign. 10 florins:1 sovereign.

 

Who sells old British coins? Anyone know?

 

[wren]

I am a little confused about the 35g being 1.5 oz. 35g = 1.1254 oz according to my calculator.

I noticed that he got that wrong. Maybe he was thinking about one and half US dollars which would be closer.

 

It was numbers like these that helped convince me that silver would be a great investment. That article has a lot of links to others about the history of silver and prices in silver and wages.

 

Fascinating stuff.

 

That and the present-day situation also with silver industrial demand tells me that silver is cheap.

 

[Schaublin]

Thanks Wren.

 

I am a little confused about the 35g being 1.5 oz. 35g = 1.1254 oz according to my calculator.

 

Yes, I read it and picked up on this mistake - simple errors like this tend to diminish my faith in any article.

 

[wren]

So is a Guinea the same as a Sovereign?

A guinea is one pound and one shilling. 21 shillings.

A guinea was considered a more gentlemanly amount than £1. You paid tradesmen, such as a carpenter, in pounds but gentlemen, such as an artist, in guineas.

 

A third of a guinea equalled exactly seven shillings.

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/cu...ns/moneyold.htm

 

Have they stopped using guineas completely in the UK? Several years ago I believe that some auction houses still quoted guineas and maybe in horse-racing?

[Mr Pipples]

as they are no longer legal currency, i assume not.

IIRC, only post decimal are CGT free. Remember though that G&S bullion/coin is classed as a chattel re. CGT - which makes a difference.

 

 

 

[id5]

as they are no longer legal currency, i assume not.

CGT is not payable on any Sterling Currency and the definition of Sterling Currency is equal to that of legal tender which is coinage and banknotes defined by the various Coinage Acts. Pre-decimal silver or copper coins are no longer legal tender so you get no CGT relief on them but you still need a license to melt them down. Maundy money though which is still silver is legal tender.

 

Don't get yourself more than a couple of bags of these as emergency SHTF money, the reason being that if the fan doesn't get hit then you will be stuck with coin that is harder to refine than Sterling silver. The resale value of these old coins has gone up considerably in the past year or so because of the possibility of the SHTF. I suspect that as soon as the financial systems stabilise enough then the price of these coins will crash back down.

 

As an alternative just by some cheap silver braclets for trade rather than old coin.

 

[nicejim]

Excellent nj. Thanks a lot! I guess a few hours researching the types of coins, dates and equiv in troy ounces will be my sunday morning. It seems only really worthwhile picking up pre 1920 coins, unless you become a serious collector (which I am trying to resist). I bet they are well worn and when in good condition are expensive. Roll on sunday.

A list of British monarchs and dates is also handy. One of the auction links posted above is for George V (1910-1936) and VI (1936-1952) silver coins, which may have no silver content. Even on the optimistic assumption that all the coins are pre-1920, the bids have gone to spot+~12%! I don't buy old coins so don't know the premium they usually go for but this seems high to me. Where I can make out a date they are in the 30s.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/100-Silver-Threepenc...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

 

A guinea is one pound and one shilling. 21 shillings.

 

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/cu...ns/moneyold.htm

 

Have they stopped using guineas completely in the UK? Several years ago I believe that some auction houses still quoted guineas and maybe in horse-racing?

I recognise that site! I always get it when I google bank holidays

They're ahead of direct.gov.uk!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=b...day&aqi=g10

[G0ldfinger]

... That and the present-day situation also with silver industrial demand tells me that silver is cheap.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/zurbuchen120405.html

Average wage paid building craftsmen 1850-1899=24 grams silver

Average wage paid to laborers 1850-1899=13.8 grams silver

Average wage paid Building craftsmen 1900-1913=63.9 grams silver

Average wage paid to laborers 1900-1913=39.5 grams silver

 

The calculations above are based upon the wage rates (in grams of silver/day) of the following cities in the years between 1850-1913: Antwerp, London, Milan, Naples, Venice, Amsterdam, Florence, Valencia, Madrid, Paris, Vienna, Warsaw, Leipzig, Stockholm, Hamburg, and several others.

Assuming that these figures are correct, one obtains in ounces per month (22 working days = month):

 

Average wage paid building craftsmen 1850-1899=24 grams silver/day=17.0 oz silver/month

Average wage paid to laborers 1850-1899=13.8 grams silver/day=9.8 oz silver/month

Average wage paid Building craftsmen 1900-1913=63.9 grams silver/day= 45.2 oz silver/month

Average wage paid to laborers 1900-1913=39.5 grams silver/day=27.9 oz silver/month

 

A weighted average of these wages results in a monthly wage of approx. 18.4 oz silver/month.

 

That's 184 pounds per month at the time of writing.

[kkeegan123]

Excellent nj. Thanks a lot! I guess a few hours researching the types of coins, dates and equiv in troy ounces will be my sunday morning. It seems only really worthwhile picking up pre 1920 coins, unless you become a serious collector (which I am trying to resist). I bet they are well worn and when in good condition are expensive. Roll on sunday.

 

Interesting that you should mention resisting serious collecting, Jake. I was browsing Chards website earlier and although not what I would consider serious collecting, I do really like some of their medallic art collections and commemorative kilo coins.

 

2005 Alderney Battle of Trafalgar silver proof kilo coin here; http://24carat.co.uk/2005alderneytrafalgarsilverrkilo.html (Interesting quoted ad from Ebay)

 

and the

 

2002 Alderney Golden Jubilee Fifty Pound Silver Proof Kilo Coin with Selective Gold Plating here; http://24carat.co.uk/2002alderneygoldenjub...silverkilo.html

 

Contacted Chards to check price and availability, both in stock but the price is now £545 each and not £495.

 

Quite a hefty premium, about £100 p/kg more than a standard 1kg silver coin, but I'm getting bored with accumulating 1 oz maples, eagles, pandas and the like. They are nice coins but you can only admire them for so long.

 

I just feel it would be great to see something "special" nestling amongst the usual stuff in my stash.