GOLD

[romans holiday]

The "hyper deflation" you talk of is absolutely real, it doesn't even need a "for the sake of argument"

Its called depreciation, and it happens as much because of technological advancements as from wear and tear (neither of which affect gold much).

 

It seems very easy here to go off topic, but I really cannot see how these markets are examples of eroding value. If anything my GBPs EURs and USDs are more valuable than they were two years ago.

But not against gold right? The liquidity pyramid suggests everything erodes in value against gold.... some things more than others depending on the tier. It is all relative; in this pyramid, currencies can appreciate against assets while also depreciating at the same time against gold [for the sake of argument, assume gold isn't in a bubble here].

 

fwiw, I don't think major currencies will hyper-inflate but remain valuable, even increase in value against assets. But I think these currencies could also depreciate against gold. If you held major currencies [i prefer dollars] you could end up with a double purchase on assets. If you owned gold, you could end up with a quadruple purchase on assets.

 

[chazza]

Bought some gold via GM this am. Was going to cancel as I was in two minds this morning, but then realised I was locked in. Ho hum. Just over 50% invested in gold so still have some dry powder.

 

Im convincing myself more and more the USD move has some legs and could well push gold to the 1000 level. Probably best to go against my 'sure thing' thinking

[romans holiday]

Bought some gold via GM this am. Was going to cancel as I was in two minds this morning, but then realised I was locked in. Ho hum. Just over 50% invested in gold so still have some dry powder.

 

Im convincing myself more and more the USD move has some legs and could well push gold to the 1000 level. Probably best to go against my 'sure thing' thinking

You self-contrarian you....

 

I'm fully locked in on GM now, even though like yourself I think there's a very good chance of lower prices. I will make sure to be a bottom of the barrel scrapper on BV.... with silver. Looking for a price around 15.50.

[aliveandkicking]

You self-contrarian you....

 

I'm fully locked in on GM now, even though like yourself I think there's a very good chance of lower prices. I will make sure to be a bottom of the barrel scrapper on BV.... with silver. Looking for a price around 15.50.

 

Can somebody explain what it means to be locked in?

 

From other comments i am getting the impression these companies are making it unprofitable to transfer back to cash?

 

 

[warpig]

I think gold's decisive move will be on Thursday when the QE announcement comes out. I'm fairly certain they will continue the process and this should be bullish for gold.

 

Bought some gold via GM this am. Was going to cancel as I was in two minds this morning, but then realised I was locked in. Ho hum. Just over 50% invested in gold so still have some dry powder.

 

Im convincing myself more and more the USD move has some legs and could well push gold to the 1000 level. Probably best to go against my 'sure thing' thinking

[romans holiday]

Can somebody explain what it means to be locked in?

 

From other comments i am getting the impression these companies are making it unprofitable to transfer back to cash?

You can sell anytime. But the problem is that at GM they have a new rule whereby you can not sit on cash for more than three months. This new rule/ regulation put me under pressure to sell dollars and buy bullion. I think GM is still good for those who want to buy and hold... but for those wanting to transfer between bullion and cash from time to time, BV is the better option.

[chazza]

I think gold's decisive move will be on Thursday when the QE announcement comes out. I'm fairly certain they will continue the process and this should be bullish for gold.

 

Well sterling seems to be starting its plummet vs the USD, so GoldGBP may do very little.

 

I think we have seen the 1st quarter seasonal peak, it appears to get a month earlier each year. May in 06, March in 08, Jan in 2010?

[chazza]

Can somebody explain what it means to be locked in?

 

From other comments i am getting the impression these companies are making it unprofitable to transfer back to cash?

 

Above a certain pruchase amount, the price you transact at is fixed at the London am or pm fixing. I now know these are not cancelable when subitted!

[Methinkshe]

You can sell anytime. But the problem is that at GM they have a new rule whereby you can not sit on cash for more than three months. This new rule/ regulation put me under pressure to sell dollars and buy bullion. I think GM is still good for those who want to buy and hold... but for those wanting to transfer between bullion and cash from time to time, BV is the better option.

 

If I remember correctly, you posted that GM said that this new rule had to do with regulations outside their control.

 

Is that true? If so, why not the same at BV?

 

If not true, why would GM want to make it difficult to stay in cash?

 

Or am I just being unnecessarily suspicious?

 

 

 

[mSparks]

But not against gold right? The liquidity pyramid suggests everything erodes in value against gold.... some things more than others depending on the tier. It is all relative; in this pyramid, currencies can appreciate against assets while also depreciating at the same time against gold [for the sake of argument, assume gold isn't in a bubble here].

If I thought the gold price was rational right now, I would absolutely agree with you.

 

But right now the gold price appears to be skewed towards raping the buyers (aka holders of US treasuries), which is just another one of those "whos uncertainties" to add to the list.

 

A Harvard prof explained it beautifully to me.

Consider the graph you posted:

Someone who has held onto gold since the start of the graph, may well feel quite happy with themselves.

 

However the person that bought at the start of the graph @ 610, sold at 777, bought again @660 and sold @777 is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

this is where "short termism" comes from.

 

Yet another one of those "Don't do it because you'll make far more money than we want you to have"

 

But there are much better assets to play this game with than gold.

 

(Also, do not forget, shares pay dividends, a share paying 5% grows your assets by 5% per year even if the price remains the same.

One of my key examples of this was RBS, if you had bought RBS shares 11 years ago, just before RBS blew up you would have been getting 50% per year back on your original investment.

 

And my favourite, you can buy shares on margin

[romans holiday]

If I remember correctly, you posted that GM said that this new rule had to do with regulations outside their control.

 

Is that true? If so, why not the same at BV?

 

If not true, why would GM want to make it difficult to stay in cash?

 

Or am I just being unnecessarily suspicious?

I believe it has something to do with GM being based in Jersey, British Channel Islands. I think it was caught up in the recent international moves to further regulate outlying areas where it was thought tax evasion and money laundering was taking place. That's the official story as far as I know, others might be able to fill you in on more detail. I thought it was odd at the time, and it did seem like a change in "terms and conditions". I am now using BV to hold dollar funds.

[Methinkshe]

I believe it has something to do with GM being based in Jersey, British Channel Islands. I think it was caught up in the recent international moves to further regulate outlying areas where it was thought tax evasion and money laundering was taking place. That's the official story as far as I know, others might be able to fill you in on more detail. I thought it was odd at the time, and it did seem like a change in "terms and conditions". I am now using BV to hold dollar funds.

 

 

Hmm, so you don't think it's a ploy on the part of GM to share any losses that might occur if they forward buy physical to meet potential orders and then get caught in a big down move?

 

So long as they can keep people fully invested in gold, then POG corrections are shared. If everyone can move freely in and out without any restrictions, GM is left holding the baby in the event of a long term correction.

 

 

 

 

[romans holiday]

A Harvard prof explained it beautifully to me.

...

However the person that bought at the start of the graph @ 610, sold at 777, bought again @660 and sold @777 is laughing all the way to the bank.

.....

But there are much better assets to play this game with than gold.

 

(Also, do not forget, shares pay dividends, a share paying 5% grows your assets by 5% per year even if the price remains the same.

One of my key examples of this was RBS, if you had bought RBS share 11 years ago, just before RBS blew up you would have been getting 50% per year back on you original investment.

So did the Harvard prof have the foresight to make the killer trade?

 

I agree with you that there are better trades out there [i like silver]... Personally, I think trading gold is a waste of time.... but I will accumulate it, that is, take profits from other trades in the accumulation of gold ounces....which makes sense with the liquidity pyramid in mind.

[El Dali]

I believe it has something to do with GM being based in Jersey, British Channel Islands. I think it was caught up in the recent international moves to further regulate outlying areas where it was thought tax evasion and money laundering was taking place. That's the official story as far as I know, others might be able to fill you in on more detail. I thought it was odd at the time, and it did seem like a change in "terms and conditions". I am now using BV to hold dollar funds.

 

 

I bought my gold bullion back at Goldmoney this morning. I'd previously sold at about 1100 nominal thinking it was overbought and missed the run to ~1215. Felt like a bit of a d1ck for a while.

I think it could correct a fair amount from here, but feel quite good (warm!) about holding some Au again . I wont trade my gold bullion again.

RH, i havn't used bullionvault before: are they alright about keeping USD cash in there indefinitely? I was considering opening a USD cash account for a little while but this could be a nicer way of doing things as it's a trading platform too...

[romans holiday]

Hmm, so you don't think it's a ploy on the part of GM to share any losses that might occur if they forward buy physical to meet potential orders and then get caught in a big down move?

 

So long as they can keep people fully invested in gold, then POG corrections are shared. If everyone can move freely in and out without any restrictions, GM is left holding the baby in the event of a long term correction.

Well, I think their purchases are pretty much correlated with customer purchases, so I don't see that as a reason why they wouldn't want there customers holding cash for an extended period. I did have my suspicions, and it pretty much threw me off balance, trading wise, but hey, them's the rules so have moved on to other avenues. That said, I'll continue to use GM to store bullion and trade the ratio.

[mSparks]

Hmm, so you don't think it's a ploy on the part of GM to share any losses that might occur if they forward buy physical to meet potential orders and then get caught in a big down move?

 

So long as they can keep people fully invested in gold, then POG corrections are shared. If everyone can move freely in and out without any restrictions, GM is left holding the baby in the event of a long term correction.

does GM forward buy?

 

How can we be sure given how lax Jersey financial reporting laws are?

[romans holiday]

I bought my gold bullion back at Goldmoney this morning. I'd previously sold at about 1100 nominal thinking it was overbought and missed the run to ~1215. Felt like a bit of a d1ck for a while.

I think it could correct a fair amount from here, but feel quite good (warm!) about holding some Au again . I wont trade my gold bullion again.

RH, i havn't used bullionvault before: are they alright about keeping USD cash in there indefinitely? I was considering opening a USD cash account for a little while but this could be a nicer way of doing things as it's a trading platform too...

I highly recommend BullionVault. There is no time limit to holding currencies... they were surprised to hear about the development at GM [i think GM will lose quite a bit of business due to the regulation]. The other thing is they actively promote trading... which of course is a big money spinner for them [0.8% per transaction]. The spreads are narrower due to an inhouse market board they use. I'll use BV to trade silver against the dollar.

[Methinkshe]

does GM forward buy?

 

I dunno. But it would make sense from their perspective to forward buy on the dips in anticipation of orders if the trend is upwards, wouldn't it? However, such a tactic would not be so clever if the POG reversed to a down trend. An enforced 3 month max for holding cash would limit any losses and also generally encourage full investment for fear of running out of time.

How can we be sure given how lax Jersey financial reporting laws are?

 

You tell me!

[G0ldfinger]

I highly recommend BullionVault.

I like GM because it's based on Jersey and I can transfer funds to any account on my name in the world, while with BV I can only transfer money back to the account where it came from, which is a pain in the @$$ for the people who are leaving Britain right now.

[romans holiday]

I like GM because it's based on Jersey and I can transfer funds to any account on my name in the world, while with BV I can only transfer money back to the account where it came from, which is a pain in the @$$ for the people who are leaving Britain right now.

Yes, this is one drawback [though you can open more than one account with other bank accounts... bit messy I know]. But I think the fact you can't sit on the softer currencies of your choice at GM is a much bigger pain in the ass... well, for the majority anyway.

[G0ldfinger]

Yes, this is one drawback [though you can open more than one account with other bank accounts... bit messy I know].

... and useless, because on BV, and in contrast to GM, I can't make gold or silver payments to myself, so how would I get the gold from one account to the other?

 

But I think the fact you can't sit on the softer currencies of your choice at GM is a much bigger pain in the ass... well, for the majority anyway.

A quite recent poll has shown that people on GEI mostly buy & hold, so I don't think the majority on here is keen on holding anything 'soft' for too long. I find it a pain in the @$$ that I regularly have to fund BV or sell gold to pay for the account fees.

[romans holiday]

A quite recent poll has shown that people on GEI mostly buy & hold, so I don't think the majority on here is keen on holding anything 'soft' for too long. I find it a pain in the @$$ that I regularly have to fund BV or sell gold to pay for the account fees.

Even so, you'd have to agree that it is quite a limit to your options not to be able to [forget about want here] hold onto dollars for more than a few months. I have been pressured to buy bullion recently at GM... right when the price is declining.

 

I certainly will not be sending any more funds to GM.

[carbon junkie]

This is utter nonsense the reason these stones were valuable is that it took a great deal of skill and labour to fashion these stones the embodied energy and skill was known to all and so these stones had value. He alludes to this then completely ignores it.

 

So long as Fiat money is easier to create than gold then gold will be worth more. As long as alchemists fail to turn lead or others in to gold then gold will be worth more than paper money.

 

There is a concerted effort building to try and prop up fiat money by discrediting gold

 

China

Buiter

Soros

 

Ever get the feeling some of the paper shills are working for the paper printers.

 

I suspect there are one or two paper trolls on this forum also working for the paper printers they tell you they love gold and silver and then spend most of the time trying to put people off buying it.

 

We know who you are.

My post above has been reported and I have been warned again!!

 

Can nobody say anything they believe to be true on this website?

 

What thoughtcrime does this come under this time?

 

Crazy

 

[Methinkshe]

My post above has been reported and I have been warned again!!

 

Well, I assure you it wasn't me even though your post was a response to mine. I had no problem with it.

 

 

[grumpy-old-man]

What thoughtcrime does this come under this time?

 

Crazy

 

you're wasting your time you know. I hate to say it but you have to call it a day sometimes CJ. The keymakers have the power.

The picture below sums up the fiat shouters & gold doubters™.

 

one of cgnao's & my favourites: